Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Only just over 500 posts until this thread reaches the maximum and gets locked. I think that gives us all a goal to work towards, let's try and get there as quickly as possible.

There's usually another one pop's up sooner or later. As you can see from the length of time I've been here. Top tip :- Just don't read them and learn to scroll.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Yes, there is always some idiot blogger prepared to support your point of view. Rather like there are plenty of points of view about science with idiot bloggers prepared to claim that climate change and evolution don't exist.

Yes, I agree 100%. I've already mentioned Kevin Hague in a previous post.

I realise that you honestly believe that Scotland carries the Union on its shoulders and so independence would lead to no drop off in spending but you must wonder sometimes why no official figures back up your proposition.

Spoiler alert: it's because you're being lied to.

That'll be nothing new to the Scottish electorate over the last few decades now will it. I guess we're all too used to it by now. It's certainly been eye opening the last few years with the rise of internet use, seeing a lot of officialdom and so called journalism come slowly but surely crashing down. A lot of Scots voters think they've been taken for fools by Labour, the Conservatives and official media outlets for far too long now.

The latest Scotland Act/Fiscal Framework and Scottish Labour tax rises being just the latest in a long, long line of Scots being spoonfed a pre agreed or dumbed down line.

Spoiler alert : Scots voters aren't dumb enough just to 'accept' whatever the latest Labour or Conservative press release is on the latest 'official report' in the Scotsman anymore. Incidentally, the Scotsman is up for sale as no one reads that anymore either.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes, I agree 100%. I've already mentioned Kevin Hague in a previous post.

That'll be nothing new to the Scottish electorate over the last few decades now will it. I guess we're all too used to it by now. It's certainly been eye opening the last few years with the rise of internet use, seeing a lot of officialdom and so called journalism come slowly but surely crashing down. A lot of Scots voters think they've been taken for fools by Labour, the Conservatives and official media outlets for far too long now.

The latest Scotland Act/Fiscal Framework and Scottish Labour tax rises being just the latest in a long, long line of Scots being spoonfed a pre agreed or dumbed down line.

Spoiler alert : Scots voters aren't dumb enough just to 'accept' whatever the latest Labour or Conservative press release is on the latest 'official report' in the Scotsman anymore. Incidentally, the Scotsman is up for sale as no one reads that anymore either.

You appear to think that the English are lying to you about the existence of £8-9,000,000,000. How do you think that they have managed to hide it from the world's academics, all those civil servants and the auditors? Heck, when the oil price was at $110 the hidden amount would have had to have been closer to £12bn.

The Government can't even build a Parliament with ballsing it up. How on earth are they going to manage to keep £12bn a secret?

.string.

How are the SNP going to keep £12bn a secret?

Why - that's easy:
Scottish government accused of blocking cross-party plans to give Fiscal Commission authority to review Holyrood’s budgets

Avoid independent scrutiny of course.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

You appear to think that the English are lying to you about the existence of £8-9,000,000,000. How do you think that they have managed to hide it from the world's academics, all those civil servants and the auditors? Heck, when the oil price was at $110 the hidden amount would have had to have been closer to £12bn.

The Government can't even build a Parliament with ballsing it up. How on earth are they going to manage to keep £12bn a secret?

I at no point mentioned the English. I said Labour, the Conservatives and the media. Scottish media is dying off because people are getting tired of reading lies and spin. Lies and spin usually from Labour or the Conservatives, which have persisted over the last few decades.

Everything now is far too easily checked or archived. And as I've mentioned before, imo, independence support is driven far more by politics than economics. Economics all too often start from the answer and work backwards than the other way round. It is those which have the 'right' answer that get the airtime and official headline endorsements from academics, pundits and civil servants. You only have to watch the Conservatives and the English press to see that. Any opposing view is simply regarded as loony left and dismissed with derision. Very unbalanced in fact. Which is why guys like Wings get barely any media coverage. Yet Kevin Hague is hardly off Scotland 2016 these days.

We can’t speak for the whole independence movement, but as far as this site is concerned the primary reason for independence is democratic. Scotland should get the governments it votes for, and if Labour lose the 2020 election – as everyone expects it to – then since 1979 Scotland will have had to endure Tory governments it rejected at the ballot box for a shocking 72% of the time.

That matters not just in principle but because Scotland has different problems and needs to other parts of the UK. It’s not a matter of independence itself making the country richer or poorer by itself, because it won’t. But it ensures Scotland can elect a government which will shape all its policies for the benefit of Scotland, rather than suffering (along with other areas) as the needs of London take priority above all else.

That’s the point that’s endlessly missed by idiots who obsess over GERS figures and fantasy oil revenues as if an independent Scotland would do everything the same as the UK does now. It’s a point that pundits can’t seem to get a handle on no matter how often they’re told. It’s a point that’s never aired on TV. But as the polls keep on showing, it doesn’t escape the Scottish public.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/stats-against-humanity/

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Lies and spin usually from Labour or the Conservatives, which have persisted over the last few decades.

And what of the spin and deflection during the independence debate. ( said as an observer nothing more).

:whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I at no point mentioned the English. I said Labour, the Conservatives and the media. Scottish media is dying off because people are getting tired of reading lies and spin. Lies and spin usually from Labour or the Conservatives, which have persisted over the last few decades.

Everything now is far too easily checked or archived. And as I've mentioned before, imo, independence support is driven far more by politics than economics. Economics all too often start from the answer and work backwards than the other way round. It is those which have the 'right' answer that get the airtime and official headline endorsements from academics, pundits and civil servants. You only have to watch the Conservatives and the English press to see that. Any opposing view is simply regarded as loony left and dismissed with derision. Very unbalanced in fact. Which is why guys like Wings get barely any media coverage. Yet Kevin Hague is hardly off Scotland 2016 these days.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/stats-against-humanity/

what exactly are the different problems and needs of the scots?

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

How are the SNP going to keep £12bn a secret?

Why - that's easy:
Scottish government accused of blocking cross-party plans to give Fiscal Commission authority to review Holyrood’s budgets

Avoid independent scrutiny of course.

There were amendments made last minute by Labour and the Tories which were voted down. The SNP haven't made a comment yet, but someone commented underneath the Herald article that has read the minutes of the meeting which are online.

Have you had a look at the sheaf of amendments yet ?

Had they been accepted the bill as it stands would have been changed beyond recognition, whether or not they would have given the FSC anything more than headaches is open to question.

There's probably a little more to it than the articles suggest. However, great to see Scottish Labour and Kezia Dugdale are finally getting behind the SNP on something just as important. Weird to see her tweeting stuff like this. But it'll be highly amusing to see prominent Labour persons who've spent the few months angrily calling out the SNP on 'wrecking the Scotland Bill'. Now having to support them 100%. However, persisting with going along with whatever the Treasury/Tories want, even if it means a bad deal for Scotland. Would've sunk them even further.

Kezia Dugdale ‏@kdugdalemsp 5 hrs5 hours ago Buy a @Daily_Record tomorrow to read why i'm backing @NicolaSturgeon 's efforts to protect the barnett formula + get best deal for Scotland

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

And what of the spin and deflection during the independence debate. ( said as an observer nothing more).

:whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:

Ah well, you see.. when I mention the media. 99% of it was spinning union supporting headlines and reports during the independence debate. You'd have been hard pressed anywhere to see anything ever written about independence/SNP/Salmond or Yes that could be described as even approaching balance. It was taken way too far.

Because it was taken way too far. The No campaign lost 20 points and support went up to 45% within a few months. People eventually just stopped trusting what they were reading and watching altogether and headlines such as 'Salmond accused' and 'SNP accused' have become tired jokes. Labour and Conservative press releases and official reports have gone the same way trust wise since then

The SNP get little opportunity to spin. They simply don't have any media support with which to do so on a large scale basis.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Ah well, you see.. when I mention the media. 99% of it was spinning union supporting headlines and reports during the independence debate. You'd have been hard pressed anywhere to see anything ever written about independence/SNP/Salmond or Yes that could be described as even approaching balance. It was taken way too far.

Because it was taken way too far. The No campaign lost 20 points and support went up to 45% within a few months. People eventually just stopped trusting what they were reading and watching altogether and headlines such as 'Salmond accused' and 'SNP accused' have become tired jokes. Labour and Conservative press releases and official reports have gone the same way trust wise since then

The SNP get little opportunity to spin. They simply don't have any media support with which to do so on a large scale basis.

surely it is only social media that anyone believes and trusts and the SNP totally dominate that, don't they?