Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

DavidF

If I lived in England I would vote Labour purely down to policies. I live in Scotland though and I have a choice of an even more left leaning party namely the SNP.
Murphy (Spit) and Milliband have bet the silver on "Vote SNP get Tory" ....Some manifesto EH ?
The SNP are doing lots of "good" in Scotland.....it's this new way of winning voters see - GIVE THEM SOMETHING - The Main parties of Westminster DO get this though as can be seen by the buying of the "grey vote".
I think the 2 main UK parties have just abandoned appeasing Scotland for different reasons, 1 party took the voters for granted and the other don't currently believe they have a realistic chance of turning round their fortunes north of the border. Both of them have missed the point of what devolution was ALWAYS going to deliver.....competition for a bigger share of the pot.
It could also be that the GE is "usually" won and lost in England......the big two know this and fight over the marginals like tigers. They simply don't feel they need to appeal to their normal "core" vote.....But in England you have UKIP and even the greens threatening to take seats - This is going to end in a coalition.....the million dollar question is of who.

CLAPTON

DavidF wrote: »

If I lived in England I would vote Labour purely down to policies. I live in Scotland though and I have a choice of an even more left leaning party namely the SNP.
Murphy (Spit) and Milliband have bet the silver on "Vote SNP get Tory" ....Some manifesto EH ?
The SNP are doing lots of "good" in Scotland.....it's this new way of winning voters see - GIVE THEM SOMETHING - The Main parties of Westminster DO get this though as can be seen by the buying of the "grey vote".
I think the 2 main UK parties have just abandoned appeasing Scotland for different reasons, 1 party took the voters for granted and the other don't currently believe they have a realistic chance of turning round their fortunes north of the border. Both of them have missed the point of what devolution was ALWAYS going to deliver.....competition for a bigger share of the pot.
It could also be that the GE is "usually" won and lost in England......the big two know this and fight over the marginals like tigers. They simply don't feel they need to appeal to their normal "core" vote.....But in England you have UKIP and even the greens threatening to take seats - This is going to end in a coalition.....the million dollar question is of who.

in what way don't the other parties give something to Scotland?

you get a higher block grant per person than the English (funded by the English)

you were given a referendum, so you could, if you wished have independence

in what way do your want the other parties to 'appease' scotland? do you mean you want more cash funded by English tax payers?

presumably you support the demand for more borrowing so we can spend more than the income for the indefinite future.

DavidF

CLAPTON wrote: »

in what way don't the other parties give something to Scotland?

you get a higher block grant per person than the English (funded by the English)

you were given a referendum, so you could, if you wished have independence

in what way do your want the other parties to 'appease' scotland? do you mean you want more cash funded by English tax payers?

presumably you support the demand for more borrowing so we can spend more than the income for the indefinite future.

I can only speak for what happens up here - Every progressive idea/policy that the SNP have introduced over the last 4+ years labour have tried to block. Free uni - Labour voted against, Free prescriptions - Labour voted against - Funding for major infrastructure - Labour voted against.....you get the idea. It just so happens that I/We seem to "like" those policies and ones in the same vein.
As for who pays for it - England Ireland, Wales ect we could argue ALL night and both of us produce links to "correct" figures that prove our point of view.....I have learned to avoid this as none of us are going to change the others view - You think English tax subsides the rest of the UK - I don not. I really don't want to argue that point as per above.
But from a personal perspective I like public services, They make me feel all nice and cosy and comfortable. How to pay ? Close the tax loopholes and start jailing those who cheat nice sentences and nice fines like the USA do. That would be a good start.
I have plenty ideas that the parties don't seem to think is appropriate - I am a lefty at heart. I don't mind admitting it either.

CLAPTON

DavidF wrote: »

I can only speak for what happens up here - Every progressive idea/policy that the SNP have introduced over the last 4+ years labour have tried to block. Free uni - Labour voted against, Free prescriptions - Labour voted against - Funding for major infrastructure - Labour voted against.....you get the idea. It just so happens that I/We seem to "like" those policies and ones in the same vein.
As for who pays for it - England Ireland, Wales ect we could argue ALL night and both of us produce links to "correct" figures that prove our point of view.....I have learned to avoid this as none of us are going to change the others view - You think English tax subsides the rest of the UK - I don not. I really don't want to argue that point as per above.
But from a personal perspective I like public services, They make me feel all nice and cosy and comfortable. How to pay ? Close the tax loopholes and start jailing those who cheat nice sentences and nice fines like the USA do. That would be a good start.
I have plenty ideas that the parties don't seem to think is appropriate - I am a lefty at heart. I don't mind admitting it either.

My point is the unequal distribution of block grant.
Socially unjust and I'm sure that a leftie at heart would support an equal distribution of the union's money always modified by need of course.

Yes and paying for the extra spending obviously shouldn't fall on more taxes for yourself but the faceless 'evil' people far away.

Failing that of course, just borrow more money.

DavidF

CLAPTON wrote: »

My point is the unequal distribution of block grant.
Socially unjust and I'm sure that a leftie at heart would support an equal distribution of the union's money always modified by need of course.

Yes and paying for the extra spending obviously shouldn't fall on more taxes for yourself but the faceless 'evil' people far away.

Failing that of course, just borrow more money.

The English Irish and Welsh are perfectly capable of "fighting" for their slice of the "pot". If you do not like your share or what your share gets spent on may I suggest when the party's knock on your door ASK what are they going to do for YOU.....Not what they can take off anyone else..just what can you do to get your town/community more funding IF needed.
As for your other point about taxing - yep I want others to pay....but here is the rub I personally would be quite happy to pay an extra 5 percent or whatever it costs to balance the books. But if I am paying my extra 5% then amazon and starbucks better get digging deep too, after all these companies benefit from our welfare system (They employ educate,healthy people for example)
Tax them on their UK earnings and make them prove their losses like Joe Bloggs bookshop has too.

Leanne1812

Great posts David, you'll have quite a hard time on here though trying to get some people to break with the idea that us wee, poor scrounging scots just want more, more, more and all for free too!! :-)

Instead of blaming Scotland/Scots I'd second asking the UK gov why aren't they getting the same policies we have? Why can't they revolt and demand more from the government?

C'mon you mealy mouthed lot, do it!

Oh, I forgot, it can't be done. How can we possibly afford it as we're subsidising Scotland so she can get all the freebies.

If this election is the start of an uprising bringing about radical changes to the way the whole of the UK is governed then I welcome it wholeheartedly.

CLAPTON

DavidF wrote: »

The English Irish and Welsh are perfectly capable of "fighting" for their slice of the "pot". If you do not like your share or what your share gets spent on may I suggest when the party's knock on your door ASK what are they going to do for YOU.....Not what they can take off anyone else..just what can you do to get your town/community more funding IF needed.
As for your other point about taxing - yep I want others to pay....but here is the rub I personally would be quite happy to pay an extra 5 percent or whatever it costs to balance the books. But if I am paying my extra 5% then amazon and starbucks better get digging deep too, after all these companies benefit from our welfare system (They employ educate,healthy people for example)
Tax them on their UK earnings and make them prove their losses like Joe Bloggs bookshop has too.

the 'share' of the block grant add up to 100% : one gets more than their fair share then some-one else gets less.

surely a leftie believes passionately in equal shares for all people suitably modified for need

I fully agree that the law should be changed to stop internationals companies from 'moving' their profits off shore: but it won't be enough (but still very worthwhile doing.

but of course we can just increase the debt mountain.

Leanne1812

CLAPTON wrote: »

the 'share' of the block grant add up to 100% : one gets more than their fair share then some-one else gets less.

surely a leftie believes passionately in equal shares for all people suitably modified for need

I fully agree that the law should be changed to stop internationals companies from 'moving' their profits off shore: but it won't be enough (but still very worthwhile doing.

but of course we can just increase the debt mountain.

Start the ball rolling Clapton as David suggests. Pester your MP, ask what they are going to do for you & your community. They are accountable to you, if they aren't working hard & trying to help their constituents/community vote accordingly.

Mp's here in Scotland have never had it so hard. People badger them constantly now. Nothing goes unchallenged. The 'little' people can bring about change if we shout loud enough.

CLAPTON

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Start the ball rolling Clapton as David suggests. Pester your MP, ask what they are going to do for you & your community. They are accountable to you, if they aren't working hard & trying to help their constituents/community vote accordingly.

Mp's here in Scotland have never had it so hard. People badger them constantly now. Nothing goes unchallenged. The 'little' people can bring about change if we shout loud enough.

The question is why does a person who says he a leftie (which I assumed meant of a socialist persuasion), believe in Thatcherite dog eats dog behaviour rather than a fair division of the available money.

My local authority provides an excellent service, their charges have been fixed for the last 4 years, their borrowing are less than all Scottish local authorities, we have excellent GP services, walk in services and very good hospital services.

We also extend and enhance the motorway system and the major roads.

No new bridges here but we have no requirements.

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in what I meant. As it was the 1 to 5 years I meant , when wondering if there was enough time to do this, not the coming election .

Or more precisely before SNP have time to engineer another referndum.

If you were to ask me.. I'd say any 'next referendum' would be on a Devo-max basis not independence. Purely advisory of course, but then left up to Westminster to say no. Which might be difficult if there is a strong SNP presence there. But I think that might be for a possible 2016 manifesto. And is probably the best vote winner out there for the SNP at the moment according to polls for..oooh.. about the last 3 years ?

But don't tell me their huge new support has come from anything other than stirring up division ,ill feeling, and a load of good sounding physcological sound bites, because it's untrue. I considered SNP and Independence as an option until I went to a couple of their sessions. And that was the end for me. People down South don't know the half of what was being said up here, in town halls and meetings.

Well most of them are on Youtube by now. Or if not, there will always have been someone there to ask what happened. If you could provide a few dates on where these comments were said, and what they were. Let us all know and we can look them up ?

Ps Bravo DavidF loving your posts too.