Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

It is exactly the same.

The UK is only as successful as we are because of our EU membership.

Just as Scotland is only as successful as we are because we are part of the UK.

In either 'leave' scenario I'd expect a rapid descent into recession, budgetary shortfalls, and mass unemployment.

There are no re-runs. Voting to leave is a one-way ticket.

What a nightmare scenario might play out for you Hamish in the next few years. A leave EU vote triggering a Scottish referendum leading to a Yes vote.

elantan

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Why do you find Ruth's increasing popularity a "bit concerning" then?

I take it you don't read much about her or follow her ?

As previously stated my son is more tory than anything else, my husband and myself are also better off under a tory government ( although we don't vote tory... never have and doubt we ever will ... but you never know )

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

What a nightmare scenario might play out for you Hamish in the next few years. A leave EU vote triggering a Scottish referendum leading to a Yes vote.

Have to admit ... that's my dream scenario

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm not really sure what part of oil price stuff seem to be missing in that everyone had the forecasts wrong. Not just Salmond. That is the point I was making.

Salmond over exaggerated the oil price and said you'd all be rich if you voted yes. Cameron and others agreed with the potential but cautioned that the effects of volatility could not be born by 'smaller' nations. How right he was.

From your own link:

Alex Salmond the Scottish first minister, will hold a cabinet meeting just six miles from Cameron's event on Monday, having criticised the prime minister for refusing to meet and debate the issue of independence with him. He has put the oil industry at the heart of his campaign, telling Scots that remaining reserves are worth £300,000 per person.

:rotfl:

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No, we were discussing whether Salmond got them wrong like everyone else, or if he deliberately lied.

He 'promised' an oil revolution and investments of 200 bn in the industry. Everyone already knows oil prices rise and fall. That bit wasn't a revelation to anyone.

No, we were discussing how the SNP continued to use already discredited oil revenue right up to the referendum even though it was already known that oil prices are falling.

As for your remark about Cameron, the SNP spin of a fragment of a newspaper article is, apart from being a deflection, just that, SNP spin.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm not really sure ...

... all over the place.

See - anyone can make selective quotes from a piece of text which suggests a meaning not reflecting the original.

I did that here. But not everybody will admit such tricks.

.string.

Tromking wrote: »

The UK`s ability to survive outside the EU is one of the key arguments to come, I`m not so sure its as clear cut as you make out.
Scotland isn't successful, its currently subsidised by the more successful parts of the UK. Although I get the EU ethos of the more wealthy nations building up the less wealthy ones and thus creating markets for their own products in the future, again I`m not convinced that the worlds fourth or fifth biggest economy would descend into the basket case scenario you describe.
The widespread panic caused by a vote for Brexit makes a second referendum inevitable in my opinion, the Eurocrats have form in this regard.

I suspect the situation may be like this.

The SNP want any excuse to start an illegal Neverendum but in the case of the EU resulting in a Brexit they would be afraid that Scotland's ability to join the EU on the basis that they were already members would be damaged. They would want to negotiate EU membership while still in it behind the UK skirts. A naive idea, but there it is.

They may think that a quick referendum and subsequent separation could be done during the limbo time between the EURO referendum and Brexit itself.

I don't think such a thing is possible (not the timescale, not the SNP wishful thinking on being accepted when they are not a country, not the hope of joining when the Neverendum was illegal, and by no means least the Scots choosing to leave the UK).

But actually the SNP would have one bigger problem on leaving the unified market which is the UK, not having a realistic chance of joining the EU any time soon, with the only other big player on the field being the UK and the non-EU European nations. Scotland would be in deep trouble, forced to go cap-in-hand for new economic partnerships. I can't see the rUK being very receptive either having been scarred by the separation.

Not that the SNP is looking any sleep over economic chaos, ,but they will continue with the mutually exclusive fairy politics of claiming Scotland's membership of the EU is all but automatic together with the stated intent to hold a Referendum should the UK choose to leave.

Don't get the impression that I am for a Brexit; I am not.

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

Salmond over exaggerated the oil price and said you'd all be rich if you voted yes. Cameron and others agreed with the potential but cautioned that the effects of volatility could not be born by 'smaller' nations. How right he was.

From your own link:

:rotfl:

Do you and string actually and truly think that Salmond spent the entire referendum campaign telling people they were 'going to be rich' because of oil prices ? In which case you'll have a serious problem now explaining why support for independence is increasing... despite extremely low oil prices ? Because I'm not following your logic.

And just for clarity, you think I should quote entire articles here, rather than just providing you with a link so you can read it for yourselves ? Rather than just..... click on it. :T

Cameron and BetterTogether made lots of crap promises during the campaign. 200bn 'oil boom' headlines among them. Everyone got oil predictions wrong in 2013/14. Salmond, the SNP, Cameron, the OBR, and the Treasury included. They were either all lying, or all wrong.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Cameron and BetterTogether made lots of crap promises during the campaign. 200bn 'oil boom' headlines among them. .

This is the warning Downing Street gave during the campaign...

Mr Cameron said the “broad shoulders” of the UK government could support investment in the industry, but Downing Street warned volatility in the oil market could have a dramatic effect on Scottish finances in the event of independence, with the smaller economy less able to absorb the impact of a drop in revenue

Can you point me to where any of the leading Yes campaigners were pointing out that fact?

Because it's looking astonishingly relevant today....;)

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

I suspect the situation may be like this.

The SNP want any excuse to start an illegal Neverendum but in the case of the EU resulting in a Brexit they would be afraid that Scotland's ability to join the EU on the basis that they were already members would be damaged. They would want to negotiate EU membership while still in it behind the UK skirts. A naive idea, but there it is.

They may think that a quick referendum and subsequent separation could be done during the limbo time between the EURO referendum and Brexit itself.

I don't think such a thing is possible (not the timescale, not the SNP wishful thinking on being accepted when they are not a country, not the hope of joining when the Neverendum was illegal, and by no means least the Scots choosing to leave the UK).

But actually the SNP would have one bigger problem on leaving the unified market which is the UK, not having a realistic chance of joining the EU any time soon, with the only other big player on the field being the UK and the non-EU European nations. Scotland would be in deep trouble, forced to go cap-in-hand for new economic partnerships. I can't see the rUK being very receptive either having been scarred by the separation.

Not that the SNP is looking any sleep over economic chaos, ,but they will continue with the mutually exclusive fairy politics of claiming Scotland's membership of the EU is all but automatic together with the stated intent to hold a Referendum should the UK choose to leave.

Don't get the impression that I am for a Brexit; I am not.

Or there's always the prospect that England and Wales will vote out.. but Scotland and NI will just tip the balance to remain.. then there will be a bit of a row...

Survation #euref
England Leave 52.2% Remain 47.8%
Scotland L 42.1% R 57.9%
Wales L 53.1% R 46.9%
N.Ireland L 43.7% R 56.3%

Whatever. But you have to admit that there is now a distinct possibility that the four nations will vote differently. And that's before campaigning even starts. Back at the start of the independence referendum the Yes side were really lucky to be polling 30% on a good day. The Leave EU side are starting from a waaaay better position. In England and Wales anyway. Not looking good for unionists at the moment.