Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No, not just the SNP.

2 hours agohttp://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14027915.Scotland_Bill_still_does_not_match_Smith_recommendations__says_cross_party_Holyrood_committee/

You need to curb that selective quoting thing. It says in the last sentence that the Conservative on the committee doesn't agree with the content of the letter.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

You need to curb that selective quoting thing. It says in the last sentence that the Conservative on the committee doesn't agree with the content of the letter.

No. I posted that particular quote to show that it wasn't just the SNP. Labour, Lib Dems, Greens also don't think Smith has been delivered.

The one Conservative was a given.

Here, have the BBC about the fiscal framework also, backing Swinney up. I don't quote full articles.. Just those that emphasise my point. The Devolution Committee has given a thumbs down so far. Though welcome progress. Cross party = 'not just the SNP'. Which was my point. ( before Tromking got any more carried away ).

A cross-party committee of MSPs believes the Scotland Bill cannot be given the go-ahead until the funding package linked to it is fully known...

It added: "You will note that we are not yet in a position to make any comments on many of the financial provisions in the Bill (such as on income tax, borrowing, assignment of VAT etc). This is because these will be part of the fiscal framework on which agreement has not yet been reached and looks like being delayed until at least December 2015.
"We reaffirm our view that an agreement to the non-legislative fiscal framework is vital and of equal importance as agreement on the provisions in the bill itself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34801258

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No, not just the SNP.

2 hours agohttp://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14027915.Scotland_Bill_still_does_not_match_Smith_recommendations__says_cross_party_Holyrood_committee/

How about for balance you also provide the link to the other Herald article today which says

Lord Smith breaks silence over devolution deal and says agreement has been reached

skintmacflint

The argument will very shortly be about the fiscal framework still to be worked out. Obviously it has to be fair to both.

Unfortunately as we already know, SNP won't be evaluating this on fairness, or what's best for Scotland, but what's best for SNP political advantage.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

You are just weaving and ducking the charge that the SNP disrespect the view of the Scottish people.

I also made the charge that your GE election manifesto was proof-positive of that.

45% of Scottish voters want full independence. About another 10% -20 % on top of those want further powers. Now, try your best to finally work out why the SNP won the most votes standing on a platform of pushing even further than Smith. And really, really think about it given the above information.

And don't forget that you yourself have admitted that not all who have, and might, vote SNP are separatists.

Those are the people who while mabye not supporting independence, DO want further powers further than Smith goes. So voted SNP. None of the other parties were offering to go any further than that.

The evidence is right in front of your face... If you'd just get past the referendum result, and look at what Scottish voters actually did when there's an actual ballot paper in front of them. One party offering to 'fight for further powers'... the others, not. It was an SNP landslide and near complete wipeout for the other parties.

And you're surprised people are getting annoyed about their elected representatives being ignored on the Scotland bill ? You're conflating the referendum result, with those that want more powers/Devo Max/Devo min or whatever. Add those two together and you get an SNP majority. Because it's what a majority of Scottish voters want to happen. It's being ignored.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

45% of Scottish voters want full independence. About another 10% -20 % on top of those want further powers. Now, try your best to finally work out why the SNP won the most votes standing on a platform of pushing even further than Smith. And really, really think about it given the above information.

Those are the people who while mabye not supporting independence, DO want further powers further than Smith goes. So voted SNP. None of the other parties were offering to go any further than that.

The evidence is right in front of your face... If you'd just get past the referendum result, and look at what Scottish voters actually did when there's an actual ballot paper in front of them. One party offering to 'fight for further powers'... the others, not. It was an SNP landslide and near complete wipeout for the other parties.

And you're surprised people are getting annoyed about their elected representatives being ignored on the Scotland bill ? You're conflating the referendum result, with those that want more powers/Devo Max/Devo min or whatever. Add those two together and you get an SNP majority. Because it's what a majority of Scottish voters want to happen. It's being ignored.

so independence is still on for xmas 2016?

skintmacflint

.string. wrote: »

I made a very similar point before and your answer was much the same, amounting to boasting about how many people were fooled.

The means justify the ends eh Shakey.

It's what it has always been about from start to finish string. Unfortunately their campaign of misinformation is wide and increasing daily.

Today at FMQs Sturgeon totally lost her composure under questions from both Kezia D and Ruth D on Police Scotland. When her usual stock trade misinformation, deflection, blame Westminster didn't work, she was left struggling to find words and her composure. Even after moving on from the subject, was obvious she was rattled.

Obviously her fans will say the reason for her loss of composure was her righteous indignation, blah blah. Others see it as she is vulnerable in certain key areas, where she can't pass the blame parcel.

Generali

skintmacflint wrote: »

It's what it has always been about from start to finish string. Unfortunately their campaign of misinformation is wide and increasing daily.

Today at FMQs Sturgeon totally lost her composure under questions from both Kezia D and Ruth D on Police Scotland. When her usual stock trade misinformation, deflection, blame Westminster didn't work, she was left struggling to find words and her composure. Even after moving on from the subject, was obvious she was rattled.

Obviously her fans will say the reason for her loss of composure was her righteous indignation, blah blah. Others see it as she is vulnerable in certain key areas, where she can't pass the blame parcel.

It's a problem when, "It's all Westminster's fault" slowly turns into, "It's our fault".

As more is devolved, less can be blamed on Westminster and the union. People will discover that the SNP is no better and no worse than any other party at running the country. Especially as the Scottish Government can now increase taxes to reverse Tory cuts.

elantan

Well there you have it the Smith commission has been delivered ... according to Lord Smith of Kelvin ...

Generali

elantan wrote: »

Well there you have it the Smith commission has been delivered ... according to Lord Smith of Kelvin ...

Ms Sturgeon will never agree with that statement no matter what is delivered.