Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

There are 96 recommendations.

https://www.smith-commission.scot/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/The_Smith_Commission_Report-1.pdf

Which ones exactly haven't been implemented?

I note that the Smith Commission doesn't cover tax credits. It is very clear about the benefits that should be delivered by the Scottish Government and those that should be delivered by the UK Government.

Mistermeaner

I say give them independence, relocate trident south of the border then invade them.

What are they going to do? Tweet at us?

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

There are 96 recommendations.

https://www.smith-commission.scot/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/The_Smith_Commission_Report-1.pdf

Which ones exactly haven't been implemented?

I note that the Smith Commission doesn't cover tax credits. It is very clear about the benefits that should be delivered by the Scottish Government and those that should be delivered by the UK Government.

Errr we're talking about the Scotland Bill ? And the fact that Scottish Labour have dominated the headlines in Scotland for a week demanding that the SNP mitigate any losses from tax credits cuts.... then voted against control of them to Holyrood. At the same time as Mundell refused to deny that any mitigation the Scots govt provides.. would be treated as 'income' and UK benefits adjusted accordingly. But Scottish Labour is still going right on about the SNP 'using powers' tonight anyway. They'd have been better keeping quiet for a bit after that vote tonight.

Is a Trojan horse of a bill. You indicated that very thing yourself a few pages back didn't you ? Nothing whatsoever for the benefit of Scots.. and everything whatsoever to do with trying to trap the Scottish Govt/SNP. It's all been played beautifully politically by the Tories, using Labour, and especially Scottish Labour's tribal hatred of the SNP. With the compliance of a mainly Labour supporting Scottish media. The SNP going along with and not willing to rock the boat too much as they're aware that May 16 needs to happen for them.

But they may have just overplayed their hand.

Iain Macwhirter ‏@iainmacwhirter 15m15 minutes ago You'll have had your #ScotlandBill. Scrappy and irritable excuse for a debate. Now goes to unelected Lords for further amendments. UK RIP?

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

I did think ... Oh it will be interesting to see how the MSM play it tomorrow ... then I remembered I was thinking of the MSM lol

Oh, you were right. The Daily Record is waxing lyrical over 'extensive new powers'.. and The Herald's piece on it has the comments section closed. No wonder everyone is on Twitter. :cool:

skintmacflint

Mistermeaner wrote: »

I just feel sorry for the majority of Scots who voted to stay being misrepresented by the minority nationalists who want to destroy the northern part of the UK. Such a shame.

It's funny watching indignant rage though when the snp get the amount of attention they deserve in Westminster; how much time should fringe politics be given?

Thank you for that. One of the many comments I heard in response to Pete Wishart once again boldly pronouncing 'Scotland is watching' during the debate was

'No we're not , Scotland is busy watching Coronation Street. '

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Errr we're talking about the Scotland Bill ? And the fact that Scottish Labour have dominated the headlines in Scotland for a week demanding that the SNP mitigate any losses from tax credits cuts.... then voted against control of them to Holyrood. At the same time as Mundell refused to deny that any mitigation the Scots govt provides.. would be treated as 'income' and UK benefits adjusted accordingly. But Scottish Labour is still going right on about the SNP 'using powers' tonight anyway. They'd have been better keeping quiet for a bit after that vote tonight.

Is a Trojan horse of a bill. You indicated that very thing yourself a few pages back didn't you ? Nothing whatsoever for the benefit of Scots.. and everything whatsoever to do with trying to trap the Scottish Govt/SNP. It's all been played beautifully politically by the Tories, using Labour, and especially Scottish Labour's tribal hatred of the SNP. With the compliance of a mainly Labour supporting Scottish media. The SNP going along with and not willing to rock the boat too much as they're aware that May 16 needs to happen for them.

But they may have just overplayed their hand.

Isn't the point of the Scotland Act that it will deliver the Smith Commission recommendations? Have I got the wrong end of the stick?

The Smith recommendations don't include tax credits, at least not that I can see.

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

At the same time as Mundell refused to deny that any mitigation the Scots govt provides.. would be treated as 'income' and UK benefits adjusted accordingly.
.

Are you sure about the mitigation being treated as income. It's not what was said when Mhairi Black questioned this at a welfare committee meeting with IDS and his main man earlier this week? Dont't disagree full control of welfare hasn't been devolved. But did the Smith Commission agree it would.? IDS didn't seem to think so and neither did Mhairi Black nor her advisor argued on behalf of SNP that it was included as part of Smith. In fact I'm pretty positive at no time did she suggest it was in Smith.

Seems we're mainly talking process on the conditions related to conditionality on receiving reserved payment of basic welfare, not being devolved. ie when sanctions apply and for how long, time before UB can be claimed. But now Scotland can top up , or create additional welfare including emergency welfare in any way it chooses. As long as it raises the revenue to cover costs including admin.

So seems to me the only problem is the fiscal trap of how to pay for it. Is it because of this comment in common space which said

' on taxes we are getting power to vary taxes, but not power to define them. Rich people can choose to have their income through shares or capital gains taxes not devolved So we can tax the middle classes but we can't tax the rich'

As you've said the middle earners might not be too happy paying extra taxes for welfare. In fact we know most won't , for a variety of hot potato reasons, several of which I agree with, as I'm one of them even in retirement.

* But as Hamish so ably explained , and am sure others will point out, the burden of stealth taxes always fall on the middle and lower earners, for a number of reasons. * Taxing 'rich' earners often results in an overall negative effect, not just confined to tax revenue. But I'm pretty sure the ability to 'define taxes' didn't form part of Smith anyway*

To be honest Shake, no matter what was devolved it was never going to be enough was it? Don't see the point in you pretending otherwise.

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Oh, you were right. The Daily Record is waxing lyrical over 'extensive new powers'.. and The Herald's piece on it has the comments section closed. No wonder everyone is on Twitter. :cool:

Thankfully the DR is in terminal decline ... can't wait till it's doors are shut mind u

elantan

skintmacflint wrote: »

Thank you for that. One of the many comments I heard in response to Pete Wishart once again boldly pronouncing 'Scotland is watching' during the debate was

'No we're not , Scotland is busy watching Coronation Street. '

Oh Scotland did watch ... maybe just not all of it

elantan

Mistermeaner wrote: »

I say give them independence, relocate trident south of the border then invade them.

What are they going to do? Tweet at us?

That'll be those English hating Scots again ... thanked by Gen Hamish and Island Annie ... lovely people