Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

I can think of some other words to replace 'patience'.

I'm not in the slightest convinced Scotland has been politically awakened and is now alert, aware and questioning. If it was surely we would see lots more questioning of SNP, some movement away from SNP and momentum towards the smaller questioning independent parties Elantan speaks of.

Maybe Sturgeon and Salmond just keep telling you that, as part of their NLP crap. If you say it often enough, people fall for it. And let's face it, it's a nice wee soundbite.

Maybe I'm just an old cynic.

Yes.. sigh... you're probably right about being an old cynic. Firstly since you seem to have missed every single opinion poll and election since May 2007 until now and are 'yet to be convinced Scotland is politically awakened'.

And secondly, because you also seem to have missed that the SNP are questioned endlessly and splashed all over the papers/MSM in a negative way, whatever they do ( see underspends ). Just about 100% of the time these days as well. So I ( and about 50% of the Scottish voting public at the present time)... have absolutely no idea where you're getting the notion that the SNP are out there 'grandstanding'. Or getting all these wonderful and wide ranging UK and Scottish media opportunities to provide 'soundbites' and a massive platform to put forward anything positive about themselves ?

It's only a matter of time before Scottish news outlets and Labour realise that playing 'tag-team' with the Tories UK wise and in Scotland against the SNP is a totally busted flush. I think we're reaching peak desperation and saturation SNP-bad levels. People are simply switching off and becoming immune to most of it. No party is above serious questioning and analysis. However, while citing the SNP for 'not doing this', or being bad for that.. there is never any comparison with the other parties. No-one really has the vaguest of ideas if Scottish Labour or Scottish Conservatives would do any better. They spend far too much time on the SNP themselves rather than push their own policies. Even when given loads of airtime, a big slot on First Minster's Questions, and screeds and screeds column inches. I still have no idea what they want to do about Trident, or new tax powers for example.

You're right about further questioning. But it's not the SNP. We all know more or less what they are presenting. The other parties.. we have no idea. And that's a very serious problem indeed for all of them. ( see polls ).

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes.. sigh... you're probably right about being an old cynic. Firstly since you seem to have missed every single opinion poll and election since May 2007 until now and are 'yet to be convinced Scotland is politically awakened'.

And secondly, because you also seem to have missed that the SNP are questioned endlessly and splashed all over the papers/MSM in a negative way, whatever they do ( see underspends ). Just about 100% of the time these days as well. So I ( and about 50% of the Scottish voting public at the present time)... have absolutely no idea where you're getting the notion that the SNP are out there 'grandstanding'. Or getting all these wonderful and wide ranging UK and Scottish media opportunities to provide 'soundbites' and a massive platform to put forward anything positive about themselves ?

It's only a matter of time before Scottish news outlets and Labour realise that playing 'tag-team' with the Tories UK wise and in Scotland against the SNP is a totally busted flush. I think we're reaching peak desperation and saturation SNP-bad levels. People are simply switching off and becoming immune to most of it. No party is above serious questioning and analysis. However, while citing the SNP for 'not doing this', or being bad for that.. there is never any comparison with the other parties. No-one really has the vaguest of ideas if Scottish Labour or Scottish Conservatives would do any better. They spend far too much time on the SNP themselves rather than push their own policies. Even when given loads of airtime, a big slot on First Minster's Questions, and screeds and screeds column inches. I still have no idea what they want to do about Trident, or new tax powers for example.

You're right about further questioning. But it's not the SNP. We all know more or less what they are presenting. The other parties.. we have no idea. And that's a very serious problem indeed for all of them. ( see polls ).

Sigh and sadly you've immediately reverted to defensive SNP mode, and totally missed the point of what I asked Leanne.

I wasn't referring to all the tit for tat stuff party quibbles in MSM, which I might add you keep posting links and referring to, while repeatedly stating no one of any sense reads them anymore. Lol.

If Scotland as a people are awakened and questioning and alert it wouldn't blindly accept and follow a party which for reasons of convenience has positioned itself with a couple of exceptions as basically not much different to any other.

SNP have spent a lot of time and energy demanding new powers.Apart from the spin of it will ensure social justice, and grow the economy, SNP are extremely light on any ideas of how they will actually use them to any effect. IMOif SNP had any detailed innovative ideas or policies in mind of how they use them to effect, they'd have been hanging them from the lamposts.

But you said you know them, so maybe you can tell us in detail how they will use them differently to achieve their claims? if you attempt to deflect with the excuse their manifesto isn't put together, Or asking me about any other political parties detail policies, etc then I'll assume you don't know. If you don't have the answers why aren't you asking them?

To my mind too many new SNP supporters are just blindly following the new fashionable party rhetoric in echo chambers on social media. Very little has changed here.

Which is why I asked if we are all so enlightened up here, why are people not flocking to hear what the smaller grass root parties Elantan speaks of have to say and suggest. Or questioning SNP past the rhetoric. That's what enlightened people do, unless as I suggested 'enlightened' is just an empty oft repeated SNP soundbite.

Just asking.

.string.

Leanne1812 wrote: »

.string. wrote: »

No I'm not mixed up, I even have a link a post or two back.

As for magic powers and the rest I've already pointed out that the Bill is still under process and some changes are likely.

But what you forget is that there two sides to this situation, it's not just about Scotland, the Bill has to strike a balance between Scotland and the Union and while you lot are in Me Me Me more you can expect zilch.

I don't care what Brown says.

It matters not a jot whether you care or not though does it?

The people who do care will be the ones making 'noise' and Gordon Brown agreeing with them will only spur them on. The point is this is not going to quietly fade away. Until people/politicians feel the powers promised have been met there will continue to be pressure to meet what helped keep the union together. What you fail to recognise is that Scotland has been politicised & energised since last year. Politics is widely discussed and still a hot topic. Those who took an interest remain alert and keen to keep abreast of the goings on.

I applaud Shakes for her patience, tolerance and explanations about how it is up here in Scotland. :T

I find it trying to respond here anymore as I've accepted some of us will never agree.

You people still peddle the lie that the Vow will not been met, as has been pointed out many times and again just now by CLAPTON, it's just SNP's wishful thinking that has been shafted.

You post, and Shakeys's post later demonstrates very clearly the navel gazing that you have in the SNP. Of course the opinion of those in the UK matter simply because the new Devolution settlement affects all of us.

The Settlement will be whatever Parliament vote for and then the SNP will have show how they are going to deal with the newly granted powers and, repeat and, responsibilities.

Put up or shut up. Enough of the Fairyland of Polls, more of the real world please.

Leanne1812

skintmacflint wrote: »

Sigh and sadly you've immediately reverted to defensive SNP mode, and totally missed the point of what I asked Leanne.

I wasn't referring to all the tit for tat stuff party quibbles in MSM, which I might add you keep posting links and referring to, while repeatedly stating no one of any sense reads them anymore. Lol.

If Scotland as a people are awakened and questioning and alert it wouldn't blindly accept and follow a party which for reasons of convenience has positioned itself with a couple of exceptions as basically not much different to any other.

SNP have spent a lot of time and energy demanding new powers.Apart from the spin of it will ensure social justice, and grow the economy, SNP are extremely light on any ideas of how they will actually use them to any effect. IMOif SNP had any detailed innovative ideas or policies in mind of how they use them to effect, they'd have been hanging them from the lamposts.

But you said you know them, so maybe you can tell us in detail how they will use them differently to achieve their claims? if you attempt to deflect with the excuse their manifesto isn't put together, Or asking me about any other political parties detail policies, etc then I'll assume you don't know. If you don't have the answers why aren't you asking them?

To my mind too many new SNP supporters are just blindly following the new fashionable party rhetoric in echo chambers on social media. Very little has changed here.

Which is why I asked if we are all so enlightened up here, why are people not flocking to hear what the smaller grass root parties Elantan speaks of have to say and suggest. Or questioning SNP past the rhetoric. That's what enlightened people do, unless as I suggested 'enlightened' is just an empty oft repeated SNP soundbite.

Just asking.

What I see when I read your post is very typical anti SNP. I think most of us know that people who dislike them really, really despise them. And mostly because of this one aim that they have.

You remind me very much of a friend who campaigned for No last year. He was a long term conservative but has recently left the party as he is involved with a new party. You may not have heard of this party yet but their aim is to unite all of Scotland and find some middle ground. I'm very open to that as for me and probably most folks we want the best for Scotland and the whole of the UK. But his problem is he still reverts to SNP bad mode regularly. At which point I switch off.

You have to accept that while you don't like them quite a few people do and we are not all brainwashed fools. I wouldn't describe myself as a blind follower but right now they have my support. I see them as pretty competent and really I suppose the question is what are the other parties proposing to entice voters to them? Can you point out failings that are really so bad that supporters should turn away from them? Can you state what the alternatives are that are so much better than what the SNP's are? As Shakes said we don't really know as they waste so much time just criticising and denouncing SNP. They need to rethink their strategy. Independence is old news. I don't wish to revisit so besides that policy why are they so terrible for Scotland?

You say SNP are basically not that much different to the other parties and I agree. So, what you need to ponder is why are voters choosing them and not the other parties.

.string.

Leanne1812 wrote: »

.... for me and probably most folks we want the best for Scotland and the whole of the UK

As are we all, but I don't believe that any member of the SNP has any good wishes for "the whole of the UK", otherwise there would be more of a realisation that the new settlement needed to be good for both Scotland and the UK. I see no signs of that whatsoever. None.

Rinoa

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Do you also know the figure Scotland contributes? Maybe you'll need to delete your post when you've checked it out........

Well, substantially less than 32Bn, otherwise you would have mentioned it in your post.

Leanne1812

.string. wrote: »

As are we all, but I don't believe that any member of the SNP has any good wishes for "the whole of the UK", otherwise there would be more of a realisation that the new settlement needed to be good for both the Union and the UK. I see no signs of that whatsoever. None.

Well I am a member so you're wrong in your assumptions. But, like skint you dislike this party so see only bad. What you don't like is Scotland getting more of her 'fair' share. What's so wrong with a party trying to get the best for the benefit of its citizens? You should all take note and lobby your MP to do the same for you.

Tromking

Rinoa wrote: »

Well, substantially less than 32Bn, otherwise you would have mentioned it in your post.

Indeed.
Anyone would think that personal taxes were higher in Scotland and consequently they somehow deserved the bung they get from the UK treasury.

Generali

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Well I am a member so you're wrong in your assumptions. But, like skint you dislike this party so see only bad. What you don't like is Scotland getting more of her 'fair' share. What's so wrong with a party trying to get the best for the benefit of its citizens? You should all take note and lobby your MP to do the same for you.

How the hell do you define 'fair share' if Scotland isn't getting enough?

The longer this BS continues my thoughts are increasingly that if the Scots are dumb enough to keep voting for the SNP then let them face the consequences: full FFA, no safety net. No extras from England. No guarantee on Scottish Government debt. Let the Scots reap the benefit of their electoral decisions.

elantan

Leanne1812 wrote: »

It matters not a jot whether you care or not though does it?

The people who do care will be the ones making 'noise' and Gordon Brown agreeing with them will only spur them on. The point is this is not going to quietly fade away. Until people/politicians feel the powers promised have been met there will continue to be pressure to meet what helped keep the union together. What you fail to recognise is that Scotland has been politicised & energised since last year. Politics is widely discussed and still a hot topic. Those who took an interest remain alert and keen to keep abreast of the goings on.

I applaud Shakes for her patience, tolerance and explanations about how it is up here in Scotland. :T

I find it trying to respond here anymore as I've accepted some of us will never agree.

I'm a member of a speakers club, we have three topics we don't talk about religion, sex and politics ... last night a man in his 70's stood up and spoke for 7 minutes about politics, this has never EVER happened in the 66 years our club has existed, this man felt it was so important a subject in today's Scotland he risked being kicked out of the club which he has been a member of for over 30 years ... he couldn't stay quiet any more ... he got a huge round of applause and recognition that things need to change.

So politics here is thriving, growing and everywhere here now

Like Leanne I take my hat off to Shake ... I really couldn't be bothered with all the crap she puts up with, change is a coming people cause we ain't going away and we will get our independence cause we're stubborn !!!!!!s that way