Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

ruggedtoast

Corbyn is tearing it up in Scotland! Worrying times for Sturgeon.

.string.

zagubov wrote: »

I read it and it was interesting and explained a lot. Thanks for posting.

The elephant in the room is that it doesn't suggest how England can govern itself optimally. It has no overall devolved government except for the regional one covering Greater London. I accept there has been little appetite elsewhere for similar devolution.

So how to do it?

All completely unified like France? (and how does this help the north etc.)
Federalised like Germany? ( is that necessary? are there strong enough regional identities to support this?) BTW I'm not sure it's such a red herring.

Or unified, but with the capital having unique autonomous government like now?

And can we just muddle along like this forever (irrespective of whatever Scotland or wherever else chooses to do or not do)?

Thank you for reading the piece and for commenting.

There are a number of things I think are worth noting, one is the reference made to devolution as "quasi federalism". I've made that point before; no pride in that because it is an obvious point. Another point made was to bring attention to the disparate sizes of the constitute UK "Nations".

Way back during the run up to the General Election, when they had the first Leader's debate, Sturgeon made a point of bringing up the notion of devolution applied to regions of England. I saw that for what it was, a bit of mischief-making. The UK which would result from such an arrangement would be chaotic, with each region vying for it's own interests and the Union would collapse, as well she knew. I do wish she, and other politicians would not take us all for idiots in spinning their little plots.

Can imagine the incredible waste of duplicating political functions ok's and bureaucracy 10 fold across the UK; and the squabbling. Show me a local politician who supports it and I'll show you a power hungry dreamer.

But anyway there's little appetite for splitting England up into fiefdoms, so the relative size of the "Nations" will remain.

In the context of Scotland, it is all a matter of the balance between. funding and responsibilities and their influence on adhesion between different parts of the Union.

I've always maintained that FFA was incompatible with the Union, and thus forever unacceptable to those wanting the Union to remain.

Take, for example, the matter of corporation tax being devolved (a repeated SNP deman). Were that the case I would certainly revert to buying only English Goods and Services, not a boycott in itself but having the same effect. Some would not do that but many would and the result would do the Union no good on both sides of the border.

In addition, there is the race-to-the-bottom argument.

Them there is the matter of equality of Welfare, rights and employment which will diverge, and then also the matter of crown land and it's relation with military use where a different view might, repeat might, be taken between UK and Scottish Parliaments.

And many others.

Anyway, to get back to the point, the issue of where the level of relative responsibility lies, whether it is called Federalism or Devolution, is the key. I'm afraid that South of the Border, the SNP has become a sullied brand and not trusted. There will be no change from current devolution plans while they are ruling the roost in Scotland; better for the Scots wanting both the Union and more Autonomy that a Unionist party takes up that cause, they might succeed. But the SNP has only succeeded in making an implacable enemy of England for their party.

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Corbyn is tearing it up in Scotland! Worrying times for Sturgeon.

Yes, he's not spoken to the press and the FT have reports that he's had to reverse his tuition fee policy saying that it's now 'under review'. Scary stuff for the SNP. But if you ask me it's the 'do the Corbyn Irn Bru face' running on Twitter that's the REAL threat.



In all seriousness though. He needs to drop his anti-SNP stance, concentrate on the Tories and winning his own party over for now. Only the above will win him votes up here. At the moment he's all over the shop.

Mistermeaner

But the Scottish people are a bit daft and can be won over easily with incoherent policies and promises that will never be fulfilled. Ripe for a good corbynning

wotsthat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

In all seriousness though. He needs to drop his anti-SNP stance, concentrate on the Tories and winning his own party over for now. Only the above will win him votes up here. At the moment he's all over the shop.

Not sure that advice is entirely impartial. I can't see a pro-SNP stance winning him all those seats back to be honest.

In his position I wouldn't concentrate on one thing or another - he needs to multitask!

Shakethedisease

wotsthat wrote: »

Not sure that advice is entirely impartial. I can't see a pro-SNP stance winning him all those seats back to be honest.

In his position I wouldn't concentrate on one thing or another - he needs to multitask!

I didn't say aquire a pro-SNP stance. He's making headlines in Scotland over the SNP. He'd win far, far more votes back by going all out on the Tories instead. That's the way imo to win wavering ex-Labour voters back next May and beyond. Taking the independence issue out of the equation.. its the one thing ex-Labour voters would love to see and would vote in droves again for. A Labour leader ripping into the Tories for once.

wotsthat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I didn't say aquire a pro-SNP stance. He's making headlines in Scotland over the SNP. He'd win far, far more votes back by going all out on the Tories instead. That's the way imo to win wavering ex-Labour voters back next May and beyond. Taking the independence issue out of the equation.. its the one thing ex-Labour voters would love to see and would vote in droves again for. A Labour leader ripping into the Tories for once.

He doesn't need our advice. I'm amazed someone who I'll be surprised to see around in May 2016 let alone May 2020 is getting so much press. He's doing something right.

He needs seats off the SNP and seats off the Tories and doesn't have the luxury of choice. It's where a party like the SNP have an advantage because they're basically a single issue party which means they can strategise in a more focused way. A labour leader has to spread themselves more thinly.

elantan

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Corbyn is tearing it up in Scotland! Worrying times for Sturgeon.

Aye so he is :rotfl:
:rotfl:

Shakethedisease

wotsthat wrote: »

He doesn't need our advice. I'm amazed someone who I'll be surprised to see around in May 2016 let alone May 2020 is getting so much press. He's doing something right.

Not really. It's just that the newspapers up here haven't caught up to the fact that there's only 1 Labour MP left in Westminster, and not that many MSP's in Holyrood either. It's actually getting quite weird. They still act and report like it's still 2005 instead of 2015. Even against their own First Minister(s) if they're SNP. They're totally desperate to get rid of them and have been for as long as I've been back in Scotland ( 2008). Have spent the last 8 years convincing themselves that Scots voters are simply deluded and 'will see the light once more' at some point. The media in Scotland is desperately hoping Corbyn is 'it'.

He needs seats off the SNP and seats off the Tories and doesn't have the luxury of choice. It's where a party like the SNP have an advantage because they're basically a single issue party which means they can strategise in a more focused way. A labour leader has to spread themselves more thinly.

And that's where I 'tune out'. A single issue party. You can't really think that they were elected to Holyrood in 2007 and in 2011 on the basis of independence ? The polls for then re independence were absolutely terrible. Barely hitting 25-30% when people were asked. It was actually a surprise to me that Salmond actually went for it given the lack of support. Sure, that's not exactly the case now. But a good proportion of people vote SNP because in their day to day lives, nothing to do with independence.. the SNP has simply done a very competent job of governing in Holyrood.

There certainly doesn't seem to have been much of a Corbyn bounce tonight in local elections.

Glenrothes West & Kinglassie (Fife) result: SNP - 59.0% (+16.5) LAB - 31.9% (-9.3) CON - 6.2% (+3.2) GRN - 3.0% (+3.0) 158 retweets 77 favourites

And this one is even worse.. check where the Conservatives are..

Irvine Valley (East Ayrshire) first preferences: SNP - 49.8% (+5.3) CON - 24.0% (+5.8) LAB - 23.8% (-6.3) GRN - 2.4% (+2.4)

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes, he's not spoken to the press and the FT have reports that he's had to reverse his tuition fee policy saying that it's now 'under review'. Scary stuff for the SNP. But if you ask me it's the 'do the Corbyn Irn Bru face' running on Twitter that's the REAL threat.



In all seriousness though. He needs to drop his anti-SNP stance, concentrate on the Tories and winning his own party over for now. Only the above will win him votes up here. At the moment he's all over the shop.

The reason Mr Corbyn is all over the place is because he has no idea of what he's doing. This isn't an aberration, it's just how he operates.