Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

People don't readily accept or trust proven liars in office.

Given the SNP track record on lies, you should probably hope that's not correct...;)

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The Scottish elections on devolved matters are in May skint.. get with the program sometime. Westminster MP's have no involvement or votes in devolved matters such as education. Am sure the electorate will give their opinion on how well or not they feel the SNP (and their MSP's ) have done next May.

With such poor results in one of her key devolved areas, think it's Sturgeon you should be advising to get with the program.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

..............

Sheer whataboutery. So you don't think Carmichael should quit over this.. a holder of an office of state, openly smearing the First Minister of Scotland, then lying about it for weeks. But you think the above two should ? ( and for what it's worth I've heard nothing much about McGarry and the oath, and I follow her on Twitter )..

Double standards much ?

Thanks for the recent posts - always entertaining but I do wish you were better tuned to the actual arguments and not ramble on regardless.

About McGarry the following is typical of reporting on the matter.:

[i]“As long as in your heart and your head you believe sovereignty lies with the people, doesn't matter what comes out your mouth,” tweeted Natalie McGarry after being sworn in as an MP.

She later deleted the tweet and explained: “I will keep my oath to respect the parliament, but I am a republican. It's not a secret.”[/i]

"It doesn't matter what comes out of your mouth". Well actually it does.

You are very quick to leap from interpretation to extrapolation but you would begin to approach at least some credibility if you showed just once (as you did now and then before you were inducted into the SNP) the capability to admit some shortcomings of the SNP - some in the SNP do that you know, so it's not against the SNP spin bible.

Just search Google with
"Behave yourself and act like adults"
and you will understand.

Go on, you know you can do it; it's in several newspapers.

The point is that what Carmichael did was wrong and unacceptable but pretty well what has been done by other politicians of all stripes. Spin - pretend you did not do it - 'fess up - get removed from post, which is near what happened in his case.

It's indeed quite arguable that he should stand down as an MP (he can't be sacked) but by the sames token many others who spin lies should also. It is often the case when someone gets caught with some misdemeanor that hypocrites from another party demand their scalp primarily for party political reasons rather than from the moral high-ground. The SNP is no exception to spinning, and certainly not averse to spinning lies, and pretending they didn't.

So - Double Standards? Certainly, all round double standards.

kabayiri

This story will be tomorrow's chip paper.

Move along folks. Nothing to see here

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Given the SNP track record on lies, you should probably hope that's not correct...;)

Mabye I should have said 'self admitted liars' ? Like Carmichael.

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

With such poor results in one of her key devolved areas, think it's Sturgeon you should be advising to get with the program.

I'm sure she'll do just that. The 'reports' you refere to in the press are from this weeks FMQ's. Where all three other party leaders concentrated on the same question. You'd think they'd gotten together beforehand or something. It's looking more and more co-ordinated every week. And it's not doing any of them any good.

Scottish Labour, Lib Dems and Tories really need to start coming up with something a bit more solid than endless weekly criticisms.of the SNP. And start pushing forward a few policies or ideas of their own for the electorate's consideration. It's no good telling us all forever more what's bad about the SNP, without putting forward exactly what they would do to change it. And I can't think of one educational policy Scottish Labour/Lib Dems or the Scottish Tories have.

And while I like Kezia.. her voice is like a fork scraping down a plate imo. And she's very 'scripted'. Struggles when things go off message. She'll have to learn fast if she's to be the next Scottish Labour leader.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Thanks for the recent posts - always entertaining but I do wish you were better tuned to the actual arguments and not ramble on regardless.

About McGarry the following is typical of reporting on the matter.:

[i]“As long as in your heart and your head you believe sovereignty lies with the people, doesn't matter what comes out your mouth,” tweeted Natalie McGarry after being sworn in as an MP.

She later deleted the tweet and explained: “I will keep my oath to respect the parliament, but I am a republican. It's not a secret.”[/i]

"It doesn't matter what comes out of your mouth". Well actually it does.

You are very quick to leap from interpretation to extrapolation but you would begin to approach at least some credibility if you showed just once (as you did now and then before you were inducted into the SNP) the capability to admit some shortcomings of the SNP - some in the SNP do that you know, so it's not against the SNP spin bible.

Just search Google with
"Behave yourself and act like adults"
and you will understand.

Go on, you know you can do it; it's in several newspapers.

The point is that what Carmichael did was wrong and unacceptable but pretty well what has been done by other politicians of all stripes. Spin - pretend you did not do it - 'fess up - get removed from post, which is near what happened in his case.

It's indeed quite arguable that he should stand down as an MP (he can't be sacked) but by the sames token many others who spin lies should also. It is often the case when someone gets caught with some misdemeanor that hypocrites from another party demand their scalp primarily for party political reasons rather than from the moral high-ground. The SNP is no exception to spinning, and certainly not averse to spinning lies, and pretending they didn't.

So - Double Standards? Certainly, all round double standards.

No, they're just your double standards. He didn't spin anything. He breached protocol and leaked a confidential memo from a state office, causing a diplomatic incident involving the French ambassador. Then he lied about it for weeks.. He then waited out an expensive ( tax payer funded ) inquiry. He's now admitted that the leak was a serious breach of protocol, has had to apologise to the French ambassador and has now admitted that he lied about it for weeks.

This is not something that is 'done by all politicians'. Dear me string. You really are reaching here aren't you.

Then you compare the whole incident to a deleted tweet ? Okay. :rotfl:

A Claim of Right for Scotland was a document crafted by the Campaign for a Scottish Assembly in 1988, declaring the sovereignty of the Scottish people. It was signed by all then-serving Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs, with the exception of Tam Dalyell (Labour),[1] a strident opponent of devolution. The list of signatories included several MPs who would later attain high office, including future prime minister Gordon Brown, future chancellor Alistair Darling, and future leaders of the Liberal Democrats Charlie Kennedy and Menzies Campbell...

We, gathered as the Scottish Constitutional Convention, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_of_Right_1989

Tromking

kabayiri wrote: »

This story will be tomorrow's chip paper.

Move along folks. Nothing to see here

Indeed.
I don`t see why anyone outside of Carmichael`s constituency should be asking for to him to stand down, and those voters who do live in Orkney/Shetland have the opportunity in 2020 to get rid.
Its called democracy people!

kabayiri

Tromking wrote: »

Indeed.
I don`t see why anyone outside of Carmichael`s constituency should be asking for to him to stand down, and those voters who do live in Orkney/Shetland have the opportunity in 2020 to get rid.
Its called democracy people!

Exactly. If they don't like his conduct he can be deselected.

Look at the issues we face. The debt / deficit / Isis / EU and Greece / Refugee issues.

This is nothing in comparison.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

Indeed.
I don`t see why anyone outside of Carmichael`s constituency should be asking for to him to stand down, and those voters who do live in Orkney/Shetland have the opportunity in 2020 to get rid.
Its called democracy people!

Because this memo story was plastered all over the UK media for days. And everyone from David Cameron/Miliband and loads of other high profile people during the election campaign had plenty to say on the matter then. It's only fair those that want to should have a say now.

Not least because he's now become a liability for other Lib Dem MP's and MSP's.. and trying to cling onto power at all costs looks pretty bad and undignified.

..A politician, the argument seems to go, should be allowed to make whatever outrageous and untruthful claim that he or she wants about an opponent.

It is a thoroughly depressing arguement to listen to. Everyone knows that politics is a robust trade, especially in an election campaign. No-one would expect candidates to spend their time highlighting their opponents’ virtues but to suggest any smear is justifiable must be wrong...

The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending."

Alistair Carmichael MP, 12th November, 2010