Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

IveSeenTheLight

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Close tight camera angles, one guy with a megaphone getting huckled to the back of the ( rather small ) crowd. Fuss over nothing. Widely misreported in a co-ordinated manner = PR stunt. The main protester is well known it seems.

Oh and, no SNP tip offs...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/ugly-scenes-as-hardline-nationalists-disrupt-labour-event-in-glasgow.125052594

LOL, tipped off by his own party.

How low is politics going to get with this desperate PR stunt?

IveSeenTheLight

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Whatever happens this week looks to be one of the most interesting in UK politics since September. Never again can the mainstream parties take Scot's votes for granted.

Indeed, for too long they have taken the vote for granted and will need to address their politics

ruggedtoast wrote: »

This will be the biggest test of the plucky Scot's mettle of her political career to date. Will Sturgeon be triumphant, will she waver like a Milliband, or sell the Scot's out like a Clegg?

I doubt it.
She is made of pretty stern stuff, not afraid to admit errors or defeat in areas and not afraid to pin her colours to the mast.

The SNP are looking like getting another history setting vote on Thursday. Previously they only managed 11 seats at Westminster and are on course to smash this.

Despite the advantages that FPTP is looking to deliver for the SNP, she is still sticking to the plan and manifesto for Proportional Representation, which would likely half the seats they would get on Thursday, because she believes in it and believes it's the best for the electorate.

How refreshing to see a politician believe in the better of the country rather than their own party's benefits.

You'll never see PR from the dinosaur two of Conservatives and Labour, because despite the will of the electorate, they want to maintain the (dis)advantages they currently get.

CLAPTON

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

You'll never see PR from the dinosaur two of Conservatives and Labour, because despite the will of the electorate, they want to maintain the (dis)advantages they currently get.

is PR the will of the electorate?

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

If Labour is the minority government, then they need to learn how to operate as a minority government.

That means working with all partied in order to gain enough for a majority consensus.

It means that they have to negotiate.

As with the Trident example, it will not be in the SNP's powers to block Trident if sufficient Labour and Conservatives vote in favour.

So in truth, the SNP will not have the power to vote down and budget on their own.

Nonetheless, if 50 SNP vote against the budget and 250 Cons vote against it, you'll blame the SNP won't you?

Nope.

The consequences of the budget being voted down are minimal these days, you just carry on with the old one.

Before this silly five year thing came in the Government would have fallen but now you just carry on as before. It's a bit of a PITA but not so bad really. Governments don't have to go to Parliament to borrow money so they can simply borrow to make up any shortfall. Similarly, they don't have to spend all the tax raised in the budget so can simply underspend and pay some debt down.

The SNP have removed most of the power they could have had by sweeping Scotland by making a very silly mistake. Now they can do nothing positive as they will be in opposition. They can't spend and they can't raise taxes.

This is exactly the sort of mess we'll see in the next Parliament. The SNP will be sitting on every select committee and the vast majority will have no idea of the Standing Orders and how they apply.

It's a shame the consequences could be so severe. I might just tuck in to some of eltan's popcorn though.

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

is PR the will of the electorate?

Just my opinion, but I believe if you asked most voters, they would prefer their vote to count.

The Conservatives only got 36.1% of the vote in 2010 (polling to be lower in 2015)

Lib Dems got 23% (also polling to be lower)

We are likely to have a minority government in 2015, meaning the majority of the voters will not have a government of their choice.

At least PR would mean that each voters choice would go towards representation in government.

It would mean likely centre politics for a long time, but would stop the swing from left to right every decade or so.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

is PR the will of the electorate?

It's looking increasingly like it is:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/general-election-2015-sixty-per-cent-of-people-want-voting-reform-says-survey-10224354.html

The 15-20% of people voting UKIP and Green will get 5 seats between them if they're lucky whilst the 10% voting Lib Dem might get 20 seats.. Then the 4-5% of people voting SNP could get 50 seats or even more.

It's clearly farcical.

In the days when Lab or Cons were getting 40+% of the votes to form a Government, that was pretty reasonable. Yes, minor parties were under-represented but the Government was getting a clear enough mandate or at least an accepted one.

When you have a 5 or 6 party system FPTP simply doesn't work any more. I think British politics has fundamentally changed and the voting system will have to change with it.

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

The SNP have removed most of the power they could have had by sweeping Scotland by making a very silly mistake.

You think it's a silly mistake, I think it's probably a prudent thing to have done.

We've seen how the Lib / Dem vote has been severely hit by joining a coalition and as the minority party, have little influence in obtaining their policy through.

So reversing your silly mistake may have made a short term gain, but for the long term, they are playing this correct.

It's time for politics to stop looking at the short term and look to benefiting the country as a whole for the long term.

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

You think it's a silly mistake, I think it's probably a prudent thing to have done.

We've seen how the Lib / Dem vote has been severely hit by joining a coalition and as the minority party, have little influence in obtaining their policy through.

So reversing your silly mistake may have made a short term gain, but for the long term, they are playing this correct.

It's time for politics to stop looking at the short term and look to benefiting the country as a whole for the long term.

Here we absolutely agree. For the SNP not to be able to get any of their policies proposed let alone pushed through the house is undoubtedly a good thing.

Ms Sturgeon has done the UK a favour and Unionists everywhere should be pleased.

CLAPTON

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Just my opinion, but I believe if you asked most voters, they would prefer their vote to count.

The Conservatives only got 36.1% of the vote in 2010 (polling to be lower in 2015)

Lib Dems got 23% (also polling to be lower)

We are likely to have a minority government in 2015, meaning the majority of the voters will not have a government of their choice.

At least PR would mean that each voters choice would go towards representation in government.

It would mean likely centre politics for a long time, but would stop the swing from left to right every decade or so.

so basically you don't actually know whether it is so or not


the AV referendum was defeated by the votes of the people: even in Scotland

maybe people will change their mind or maybe not..

Interesting you think that there is wonderful merit in the SNP being consistent in their support for PR even when not to their advantage
but don't think there is merit in the Tories / Labour being consistent in their support for FPTP even when not to their advantage

but I guess the key difference one is scottish and so is good axiomatically and the other non-scottish so is axiomatically bad and evil.

One notes the Scottish system wasn't introduced by the vote of the people but by Westminster politicians

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

Here we absolutely agree. For the SNP not to be able to get any of their policies proposed let alone pushed through the house is undoubtedly a good thing.

Ms Sturgeon has done the UK a favour and Unionists everywhere should be pleased.

Ok, your in agreement with me, but I think for very different reasons.

P.S. there is no signs from the two main parties of Unionism in this election campaign