Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

zagubov

skintmacflint wrote: »

I think she did. Shortly after Sturgeon stepped in to demand this was stopped. Something she and SNP strategists have had to do a few times that I've seen. It was aimed intimidation of any local non SNP political campaigners , not wanting to see themselves appear in some doctored YouTube video online. But it's naïve to think intimidation doesn't occur without breaking the law, or somehow isn't that bad or relevant unless a law is broken.

I agree there has been some pretty vile stuff from both sides posted on social media Leanne, and also in some incidents. This is what happens when daily derogation on social media is used as a prime method to neutralise your political opponents. Some nut cases get carried away with it, then act it out in real life on the streets.

Never mind the social media, the reason I feel strongly enough to post, despite having lived elsewhere for decades, is the parlous state of the Scottish mainstream media.

It's ridiculous that the story of Scotland's constitutional future should be in the hands of a distant bunch of bureaucrats and media millionaires with one common political viewpoint. The paucity and accuracy of Scottish cover down here in London are abysmal.

The recent Torygraph Nicola "scare story" was a (somewhat self-defeating) low point in an abysmally poor level of coverage.

I managed to get the Newsnet email news bulletin six years ago, before it became specifically pro-indy, but for accuracy it beat the other sources down here into a cocked hat.

If one side of a story is only available on social media, you wonder if a country's print and broadcast media are fit for purpose in a democratic society, where people need information to make judgments.

Leanne1812

skintmacflint wrote: »

I think she did. Shortly after Sturgeon stepped in to demand this was stopped. Something she and SNP strategists have had to do a few times that I've seen. It was aimed intimidation of any local non SNP political campaigners , not wanting to see themselves appear in some doctored YouTube video online. But it's naïve to think intimidation doesn't occur without breaking the law, or somehow isn't that bad or relevant unless a law is broken.

I agree there has been some pretty vile stuff from both sides posted on social media Leanne, and also in some incidents. This is what happens when daily derogation on social media is used as a prime method to neutralise your political opponents. Some nut cases get carried away with it, then act it out in real life on the streets.

It might not reflect the behaviour of most, but as with everything in life, it sometimes only takes a minority.

What else can Nicola Sturgeon and her party do? Surely she can't be responsible for the behaviour of everyone?

Again, I won't condone abusive behaviour to anyone about what their political views are. What I would say about what happened in the case of Margaret Curran is as an elected representative I'd think she should be answerable to her constituents. It appears she is selective in her audience. She has a facebook page which I have had a scroll through and anyone asking for answers to genuine questions is ignored or abused by her supporters. Margaret herself does not respond. It fosters frustration I'd imagine.

What's happening in Scotland is people now realise we actually put these people in power and if we disagree with their policies or feel they are not representing the community they are elected to them we're not afraid to let them know. Politicians no longer have an easy ride ( labour in particular ) they cannot be complacent and expect to be re-elected just because they are labour. This is what has changed in Scotland and I'd say it's a positive move.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Leanne1812 wrote: »

This is what has changed in Scotland and I'd say it's a positive move.

What has changed in Scotland is that a political candidate has been threatened with beheading by an SNP supporter with a chainsaw.

And instead of condemning it outright and urging your fellow nationalists to calm down, we have obfuscation and deflection, as you all run around trying to change the subject or point the finger elsewhere.

The divisive, hate fuelled, rhetoric of nationalists is what causes this.

Nothing else.

When some SNP supporters think like this.....



..... it's hardly a surprise others start talking of beheading.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

zagubov wrote: »

the parlous state of the Scottish mainstream media.

Well let's have a look at an extract from The National, you know, the pro-indy mainstream media paper owned by the Herald Group....

“Margrit [Margaret Curran] is about to give her name to a foodstuff, like peach Melba or Pavlova pudding,” wrote one prominent SNP supporter last week. “Margrit’s toast is dry, stale, mouldy, and spread with invisible Labour jam. It’s difficult to swallow, and even harder to keep down. Her career is about to be regurgitated by the electorate of the East End, and a bit like Linda Blair in The Exorcist doing her revolving head thing, projected forcefully into far distant corners.”

I don't see the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Sky or any of the broadsheets resorting to childish name-calling like the above.

But in a pro-indy paper? All the time....

you wonder if a country's print and broadcast media are fit for purpose in a democratic society, where people need information to make judgments.

Well, quite....

Leanne1812

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

What has changed in Scotland is that a political candidate has been threatened with beheading by an SNP supporter with a chainsaw.

And instead of condemning it outright and urging your fellow nationalists to calm down, we have obfuscation and deflection, as you all run around trying to change the subject or point the finger elsewhere.

The divisive, hate fuelled, rhetoric of nationalists is what causes this.

Nothing else.

I disagree.

You appear to be quite hysterical about this.

I don't condone it neither do the vast majority of people no matter what side.

Is this tactical on your behalf? It appears so, pretty desperate and flailing.......surely as a grown up you can put this in perspective, or can't you? Is your hatred so deep that you cannot see this for what it is? Isolated incidents by nutters. All of Scotland is not at war, it's just in your head........

I don't want to have to resort to posting what britnats say or do. It's not constructive.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Isolated incidents by nutters. .

Yes you keep repeating that meme but every day there are hundreds of new extremist ScotNat attacks on social media, each of them an "isolated incident" according to you....

And in just the last few days in real life...

- A female Labour politician has been stalked and "hunted" by SNP supporters

- A Conservative office has had a swastika painted on it

- A Labour councillor has been threatened with beheading by a SNP supporter with a chainsaw

- A Labour office has had a Q for Quisling painted on the door

- National journalists for Channel 4 have complained about racist intimidation by nationalists at a Sturgeon rally in Aberdeen

One of these in a few months might be an "isolated incident", to have five in just a few days is a "pattern of abuse".

Get your head out of the sand Leanne, the SNP supporters are increasingly showing extremist and dangerous tendencies, and your continued attempts to excuse or downplay such behaviour make you look a bit desperate...

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

Never mind the social media, the reason I feel strongly enough to post, despite having lived elsewhere for decades, is the parlous state of the Scottish mainstream media.

It's ridiculous that the story of Scotland's constitutional future should be in the hands of a distant bunch of bureaucrats and media millionaires with one common political viewpoint. The paucity and accuracy of Scottish cover down here in London are abysmal.

The recent Torygraph Nicola "scare story" was a (somewhat self-defeating) low point in an abysmally poor level of coverage.

I managed to get the Newsnet email news bulletin six years ago, before it became specifically pro-indy, but for accuracy it beat the other sources down here into a cocked hat.

If one side of a story is only available on social media, you wonder if a country's print and broadcast media are fit for purpose in a democratic society, where people need information to make judgments.

why do you think that the people of Scotland don't support or start their own newspapers that reflect their own views?


how often do you post about the paucity of coverage of events in Yorkshire or of the SW (devon & cornwall) : they both have about the same population as Scotland and so why do the people there don't matter to you?

Maybe the difference is that the land there is less sacred and they aren't a 'nation' and so they don't count.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

During today's debate Nicola Sturgeon did not dispute the IFS assessment that full fiscal autonomy would cost Scotland £7.6 billion a year in tax revenues.

Interestingly, even WINGS admits this is the case, that Scotland would be £7.6bn worse off under FFA than with the Barnett formula.

So if Scotland is to avoid unsustainable levels of borrowing to cover that black hole, then uniquely amongst the nations of the developed world, we would have to achieve truly heroic growth levels in excess of 5% of GDP per year, double the international average, to make up the short fall.

How do the SNP plan to do it?

What Magic Miracle Growth Engine to they plan to start up, that we couldn't already do now?

Sturgeon has already backtracked on Salmond's planned cut to corporation tax to attract new business and stimulate growth, instead vowing there will be no cuts to company taxes, so how does she expect such miraculous growth?

The SNP keep refusing to answer this question, in fact she repeatedly refused to answer it again today, and when questioned on where this magic growth will come from they accuse the questioners of being part of "Project Fear".

That's not Project Fear.... That's Project Face The Facts.

Shakethedisease

I love weegingerdug. He's very funny... I don't see much difference in him writing for a newspaper, or Alan Massie, Peter Hitchens, Katie Hopkins or Kelvin McKenzie in others. They are paid for 'telling it how it is' according to them.. Some of them are also pretty good at name calling too.

...because unlike Andrew Gilligan I live there and actually know where Shettleston is and have seen at first hand how Labour has let it down for generations ...I am not a member of the SNP, I do not receive directions, finance, or support from the SNP, and no one in the SNP has ever told me what to write or not to write. And if they ever did I’d tell them !!!!!! off.

It suits the Telegraph’s narrative to depict Scottish working class people as sheep who need to be directed and told what to say and do – that’s how our Westminster masters see us after all. They are incapable of comprehending the truth – that I’m just an ordinary East End punter who calls things as he sees it, and I don’t see anything of merit in Magrit. I don’t prevent anyone else speaking. I don’t shout down those I oppose politically. I mock, I make fun, I slag off, I flyte. And I refuse to be patronised by morons with an agenda.
But then it’s bullying of me to point that out. What’s really scary for the Andrew Gilligans of this world is that I am far from being alone.

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/

I'd hardly say 'Magrit' is an insult. He calls Alex Salmond 'AlicSammin'. But he's nothing to do with the SNP. Neither are nutters with electric saws or nutters trying to run Alex Salmond off the road. Trying to project any of the above into being Nicola Sturgeon's or the SNP's 'fault' somehow, is just lazy. It's classic indy ref stuff smear tactics coming to the fore again.

Anyway, no doubt we can write the script re the next few weeks... we've been here before with the 'vile cybernats' and Labour MP's getting loads of sob story exposure in the Daily Record and the Telegraph ( the Telegraph and Labour, who'd have ever thought ! ) in particular. I didn't see that tweet about Humza mentioned though strangely. Same old, same old one sided reporting. If it's a police matter, best to let them deal with it.

I see Nicola put Jim's own question to him this morning..

During the debate Ms Sturgeon asked the Labour leader "in billions, how many more cuts is Labour going to introduce?"

Mr Murphy said: "We have a different view. You're thinking like a Tory. There's different way out of this. You don't just have to cut your way out of a deficit. We grow our way out of the deficit."

The SNP leader responded: "You've just made my argument for me. If you're going to grow your way out of deficit, you need the powers to do it."

Nicely done !

MumOf2

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Although you'd never know it reading the last few pages of this thread we are all living very peacefully together. I nor anyone I know have experienced abuse or violence no matter what our political views are. The picture of the vandalised window & door is certainly not representative of what's happening around the country. Isolated incidents portrayed as mainstream by Hamish. I think he's well and truly rattled by the polls which are pretty consistent no matter how many tactic changes the party leaders try to trot out.

Online abuse is one thing but I'd imagine for most of us our daily lives are unscathed by the election frenzy.

I'm really glad for you, Leanne. We decided to live south of the border to get away from racist anti-English abuse in the run up to the referendum and are really glad we did. This just appears to be a re-run now - thank goodness we made our decision when we did.


All is peace and quiet here - we have our local hustings tomorrow and it should be lively but I'm absolutely confident that it will be free of the nastiness and racism that we encountered last year.