legion group no popla number

toddstar

hello everybody, thank you for this great forum. looking for help on how to proceed please.

nhs car park, wigan area. 10/11/14 received windscreen ticket from legion group for 'your vehicle was not parked in a designated parking space'.

15/12/14 received ntk in post from ppc. replied a couple days later using unedited ntk appeal template from newbies sticky.

30/12/14 received letter from ppc but no popla ref number. I just wanted to check with the experts here on how to proceed. here's what the letter says that I just got from ppc:

"Thank you for your letter dated 16th December 2014 relating to Parking Charge Notice Number XXXXXX issued at an NHS Car Park, Wigan on the 10th November 2014.

I note that you have obtained a plethora of information which has obviously come from one of the many internet sites that offer this type of unqualified advice. Much of the information you have enclosed is of no relevance to this particular case and indeed case law has previously been established to address many of the points.

During your research you will no doubt have become familiar with the case of Parking Eye V Beavis and Wardley heard in the High Court on 19th May 2014, which has established case law in many of the circumstances you describe and on this basis we are confident that we have met the requirements of the British Parking Association code of practice surrounding the issue of this Parking Charge Notice.

In order to prevent any further costs being incurred to ourselves via the use of Debt Recovery and any subsequent court proceedings we are willing to accept your suggested payment of £15.00 to discharge this matter; this offer does not constitute an acknowledgement of the grounds for your challenge nor does it set precedent for the enforcement of the parking regulations in place at an NHS Car Park, Wigan.
If the above payment is received in this office by 15th January 2015 the matter will be formally acknowledge as closed."

The_Slithy_Tove

Did the unedited appeal template really include an offer of £15 to settle? Don't pay them a penny!

You should respond along the lines of:
- Yes, you researched their sordid little outfit on the internet, and why not. It was most revealing of how disreputable they are.
- Your research did, indeed, find the Parking Eye V Beavis and Wardley case, and it also showed that it is not case law, and it is being appealed anyway. You find that their not mentioning that rather crucial fact, and claiming it to be case law, as deceitful at least, if not downright dishonest.
- Your internet research also found out that the BPA Code of Practice, to which they are bound, says that a POPLA code should have been sent with their appeal response, and so they will be reported to the BPA for that breach, and you now expect said POPLA code by return.

hoohoo

aos@britishparking.co.uk

Dear BPA,

I wish to raise a formal complaint about Legion. I enclose a copy of a letter from Legion which shows that my appeal is denied yet no POPLA code is supplied. This is a breach of your code of conduct.

I also note that the letter misleadingly states there is case law to deal with the points I raised, which is not correct. The latter also mentions ParkingEye v Beavis without mentioning the case is being heard in the court of appeal on Feb 24 2015. I regard this as a breach of your code of practice concerning professionalism - unless you normally expect your members to lie and deceive.

toddstar

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

Did the unedited appeal template really include an offer of £15 to settle?

I hope I haven't messed up, here's the text from the drop hands offer paragraph in the template I used, I've highlighted the bit that I think shows their misunderstanding:

"The extravagant 'parkingcharge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postagecosts. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law andresponding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It isclear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore,this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persistthen I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocketexpenses and damages for harassment."

Umkomaas

Seemingly they're too dumb to understand the paragraph.

Those knuckles must be really sore!

Fruitcake

toddstar wrote: »

I hope I haven't messed up, here's the text from the drop hands offer paragraph in the template I used, I've highlighted the bit that I think shows their misunderstanding:

"The extravagant 'parkingcharge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postagecosts. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law andresponding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It isclear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore,this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persistthen I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocketexpenses and damages for harassment."

You haven't messed up, they haven't misunderstood. They are just trying to get some money because they know they are on to a losing streak.


Complaints to the BPA and DVLA must be issued every time a PoPLA code is not provided with a rejection.

toddstar

great stuff guys, thank you very much for the responses, I now know how to proceed.

The_Slithy_Tove

toddstar wrote: »

I hope I haven't messed up, here's the text from the drop hands offer paragraph in the template I used:

"The extravagant 'parkingcharge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postagecosts. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law andresponding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It isclear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore,this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persistthen I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocketexpenses and damages for harassment."

My interpretation of that paragraph is to say:
- Your costs are really only about £15 so far (not the £100 you are claiming)
- It has also cost me £15 in time and effort to research this
- Therefore lets call it quits right now.
I.e. no money is offered or exchanged.

Dublindel

A drop hands argument and correctly so.

toddstar

yeah that's my understanding of the drop hands offer too.

so legion group are suggesting that my original appeal to them is "not valid" as an appeal and that would be the reason they haven't provided me with a popla ref number? are they allowed to choose what is or isn't to be considered an appeal?

I complained to the bpa via email last night, I have received a response today asking me to send a transcript of my original complaint, so things are moving along there.

i'm going to write again this afternoon to legion group when I get chance to put something together.

Fruitcake

toddstar wrote: »

yeah that's my understanding of the drop hands offer too.

so legion group are suggesting that my original appeal to them is "not valid" as an appeal and that would be the reason they haven't provided me with a popla ref number? are they allowed to choose what is or isn't to be considered an appeal?

I complained to the bpa via email last night, I have received a response today asking me to send a transcript of my original complaint, so things are moving along there.

i'm going to write again this afternoon to legion group when I get chance to put something together.

No. You appealed so they have to send a code. You don't have to request a PoPLA code but the PPC must send one. The BPA CoP says so.