Elderly parents have moved to a nursing home. How best to deal with their property?

Mardle

xylophone wrote: »

The benefits have nothing to do with each other.

PGC is means tested - AA is not.

It seems to me unlikely that anyone who is self funding in a care home would be on PGC - the fees at one near here are £50,000+a year...........and that's for one person.
http://www.payingforcare.org/care-home-fees

You're wrong.

Before being awarded AA my mother was only entitled to PSC. Once she started receiving AA she also got PGC and was self funding in a care home.

AdrianC

xylophone wrote: »

It seems to me unlikely that anyone who is self funding in a care home would be on PGC - the fees at one near here are £50,000+a year...........and that's for one person.

The fees at one near us were a grand a week, five years ago. But the fees at the home the MiL was in were half that, two miles away, and it was a better place for her.

Rambosmum

Ok. First things first. In March 2015 the financial aspect of the The Care Act come in to force and your parents (or their representative) needs to contact the L.A in the new year to set up a care finding account. This will then add up the amount your parents are paying for their care. Once that account reaches £72k the local authority will take over funding of their care (£72k each mind you).

The care funding account cannot be back dated and so if you leave setting one up until this time next year it won't take in to consideration what your parents have paid up until that point.

Also bear in mind that it is a 'care' fund account, and not all the amount your parent's pay to the nursing home will be added to the fund, as some is rent, some food, some cleaning etc etc and only a small percentage is actual care.

You say that your parents are paying for their own care, by which I can only assume (based on government funding criteria) that they have more than £23500 each in the bank. If not, we need to go down another track...

If you do not have power of attorney and neither of your parents have the capacity to make this decision then you need to go through the court of protection to gain this. If your parents can make this decision and you are seeking information to help them make this decision then great. I would however suggest that whilst your parents have capacity that you get power of attorney (for both health and finances, rather than just finances). Power of attorney ) apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs) doesn't give you the right to make decisions on another persons behalf if they have capacity to make the decision themselves but does once they no longer have that capacity, and it is much much easier and cheaper to get now than when you actually need it, when you have to go through the expensive and time consuming court of protection.

Anyway, I digress.

Whether you sell it now or sell it later is of little consequence. If your parents are happy for you to manage the letting of the property, and you are happy to do it, along with the tax issues etc then go for it if the maintenance etc won't cost them too much. If your parents ever do qualify for L.A funding then rental income will be considered and increase the amount your parents have to pay and a 'marker' will be placed on their account for the L.A to claim back any money they have paid out on the sale of the property.

People worry that L.A funding means they have to go in to a rubbish care home, but the truth is that the L.A pays a set amount and most care homes will charge that if they know the client is L.A funded. The care home cannot refuse to take a client based on where their funding is coming from though they can charge a 'top up' which the client is responsible for, in reality very few homes do this.

Selling the property would give your parents a lump sum which they could use to pay for care, or as I would recommend, lavish on children and grandchildren!

Mojisola

jenniwat001 wrote: »

People worry that L.A funding means they have to go in to a rubbish care home, but the truth is that the L.A pays a set amount and most care homes will charge that if they know the client is L.A funded.

The care home cannot refuse to take a client based on where their funding is coming from though they can charge a 'top up' which the client is responsible for, in reality very few homes do this.

This is not at all the situation in our area.

There is only one home that accepts residents at the LA rate - and it's obvious that they are running the place on a very limited budget.

Every other care home requires a top-up fee if the resident is funded by the LA or the full payment from the resident if not.

Care homes are businesses. If there isn't a relative willing to sign up for the top-up fees, of course they can refuse to have a client move in.

Our LA made it very clear when Dad moved into care that if he was unable to meet the fees, he would be moved to the lower priced care home.

Rambosmum

Mojisola wrote: »

This is not at all the situation in our area.

There is only one home that accepts residents at the LA rate - and it's obvious that they are running the place on a very limited budget.

Every other care home requires a top-up fee if the resident is funded by the LA or the full payment from the resident if not.

Care homes are businesses. If there isn't a relative willing to sign up for the top-up fees, of course they can refuse to have a client move in.

Our LA made it very clear when Dad moved into care that if he was unable to meet the fees, he would be moved to the lower priced care home.

I guess it depends on where you live. Where I work (with the above client group) only a couple charge a top up for L.A funded clients and those are the ones with poor reputations too!

ratrace

stayathomemum wrote: »

Thanks for that really helpful reply.

No, actually we want to ensure the our parents have enough funds to cover their costs in the nursing home.

Hi op hope you are well

Its a funny old world aint it

Your situation reminds me of a conversion i was having with an old but fit and healthy next door neighbor (Mr after observing some chaps in suits going in and out his house for a few days i asked him what was going on, he said i have just sold my house i was quite surprised and a bit baffled as i didnt see a for sale sign up.

He went on to say he sold his house below market value to one of them company's who buy your house then let you rent the it out untill your no longer around or have gone it to a care home. He said my health in not great at the moment and i know i will need to go in a care home in the next 5 years or so i decided to sell and enjoy the proceeds of the house by doing what i want to do instead of letting the greedy government sell it and pay for the care home fee's :rotfl:after all i have spent all my working life to pay it off

What the moral is that make sure you try and preserve your inheritance not in a greedy way but more as a legacy, your parents worked really hard and no doubt sacrificed lots to buy the house they have

How is it fair if they have assets then they have to sell to pay for their care but if they don't then oh don't worry we the government will cover it double standards

Hope this helps

xylophone

You're wrong.

What am I wrong about?

I was saying

It seems to me unlikely that anyone who is self funding in a care home would be on PGC -

I did not say that it was impossible.

At its most basic, a person of eligible age has an appropriate minimum guaranteed income. This includes the standard minimum guarantee of £148.35 which may be increased by certain amounts like the severe disability premium.


http://www.payingforcare.org/care-home-fees

The lowest weekly amount shown in the above is £470 a week - as far as I can see, even if a person received higher rate AA and PGC at basic plus additional premium for disability, his income would barely reach the lowest average amount shown in the above?

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS48_Pension_Credit_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true



And a person does not receive AA simply because he receives PGC, nor does receipt of AA automatically qualify him for PGC.


The effect of becoming entitled to AA (because of needs relating to personal care etc) is to increase the "appropriate minimum guarantee"-see Age UK link).

And if you are in a care home, you are only entitled to receive AA if you are self funding (or the only help received with fees is the Nursing Care Component).

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/documents/en-gb/factsheets/fs34_attendance_allowance_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

"Attendance Allowance in a care home
Whether or not you can receive Attendance Allowance in a care home
depends on how the fees are being met. If you are paying the full charges in
a care home, with or without the help of benefits like Pension Credit, you can
claim and receive Attendance Allowance provided you fulfil the other
conditions for it. You can also get Attendance Allowance if you are selffunding
apart from contributions from the NHS towards nursing care
payments."

theoretica

stayathomemum wrote: »

I have thought of a number of options:
1. Sell the property - this gives a finite pot of money to finance their care

2. Rent the property. The house needs some work (new kitchen/bathroom/decorating) to bring it up to date. Property value continues to increase and they have an income from it.

3. My sister and I buy the property and rent it. Provides them with the capital and the family have an investment.

Option 3 is really the same as option 1 and then you and your sister going into the buy to let market with a different house. (The main difference now is you know how it has been maintained etc.) Probably not something you had considered before, and is it actually the best chosen house for a buy to let investment?

stayathomemum

J_i_m wrote: »

People are quick to judge.

However... personally I'd be far more interested in the peace of mind that my parents are financially secure, are well looked after and have the means to pay for it.

To me, that is infinitely more important than inheriting money.

I work, I earn my living and I save for my future. I don't rely on some inheritance that might or might not happen.

I'd put my parents welfare first each and every time.

I'd not wish this situation on anyone, believe me. My mum had a stroke in May and has Alzheimers. It's been a very difficult 6 months to get to where we are. I am so relived that they are both safe, cared for and together.

stayathomemum

xylophone wrote: »

OP, you have not said whether or not you have POA - if not, it would simplify matters to get this sorted out while your parents still have capacity.

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/overview

We're sorting it out atm.