Three Executors and small estate

hundredk

SeniorSam wrote: »

I am sorry to inform you that a 'nominal peppercorn rent will not satisfy the rules of gifting, as a full market value rent needs to be paid. Whatever the value of the house at the date of death, that value will need to be added to the value of other assets owed in completing the tax return. If it is not correctly completed, the executors may find that there is considerable delay in sorting this out. Any rent received by the Trustees needs to have been declared in the Trustees tax return each year.

From what you have said, it seems that you have been poorly advised, and the Trustees have not been acting correctly. However, they may be able to organise matters if the executores pull together and make a correct declaration. If they ignor the situation, then this could come back on the Trustees and Executors with fines for incorrect submission.

If you are in doubt, then speak with a S.T.E.P solicitor or the tax office, who will confirm what I have said.

Sam

Is this what you are referring to?

3. Gifts
When you value someone’s estate, you must include any cash or other assets they gave away:

• in the 7 years before they died
• at any time if they continued to benefit from it (eg they gave a house away but lived in it rent-free) - these are ‘gifts with reservation of benefit’ in Inheritance Tax forms

The person holding the title to the house is executor A. He holds the house in trust for executors A, B and C as tenants in common in equal shares.

B is the troublesome executor. A is the executor with power over the trust. I am executor C who is trying to find out info from B and also represent A's best interests as he needs support in finacial and legal matters.

A and C still live in the property held in trust.

What is a S.T.E.P solicitor?

The value of the estate is under the IHT threshold regardless of the value of the house which is £110k ish so does this effectively mean all the processing is probate, including the house value on the IHT form and nothing else is affected - ie A carries on holding the house in trust during and after probate and submission of estate accounts?

hundredk

g6jns wrote: »

Who are the trustees and who drew up up the trust?

The trustee is executor A. He is very placid. B is controlling and overbearing. I believe mum was protecting A's interest by placing the trust in his name.

The same solicitors who drew up the will drew up the trust.

g6jns_2

hundredk wrote: »

The trustee is executor A. He is very placid. B is controlling and overbearing. I believe mum was protecting A's interest by placing the trust in his name.

The same solicitors who drew up the will drew up the trust.

Do you mean B is a trustee of the trust? If so it sounds like he is in deep do-do for neglecting his duties.

SevenOfNine

:beer:

g6jns wrote: »

Do you mean B is a trustee of the trust? If so it sounds like he is in deep do-do for neglecting his duties.

A, B & C are executors.
'A' alone is trustee, the property is held in trust for A, B, C.
A is very placid & B is an overbearing bully, C is trying to look out for the interests of A & C so they don't get shafted by B.

Pay attention g6jns :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

g6jns_2

SevenOfNine wrote: »

:beer:

A, B & C are executors.
'A' alone is trustee, the property is held in trust for A, B, C.
A is very placid & B is an overbearing bully, C is trying to look out for the interests of A & C so they don't get shafted by B.

Pay attention g6jns :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Noted. The point is that based on what we have heard the trustee and solicitor need to be told very plainly that they are responsible for the whole mess and must pay the full costs of unscrambling it. Time for the others to take the gloves off.

hundredk

g6jns wrote: »

Do you mean B is a trustee of the trust? If so it sounds like he is in deep do-do for neglecting his duties.

A holds the property in trust for himself, B & C in equal shares so I think that means A is the trustee.

At the time it was set up A went to the solicitors with M&D and the trust was set up between those parties.

A wants to follow the correct process but cannot stand up to B. I'm trying to do that on his behalf at distance.

B is the dominant one who wants to control any and all affairs.

hundredk

SevenOfNine wrote: »

:beer:

A, B & C are executors.
'A' alone is trustee, the property is held in trust for A, B, C.
A is very placid & B is an overbearing bully, C is trying to look out for the interests of A & C so they don't get shafted by B.

Pay attention g6jns :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

That's exactly the situation.

hundredk

g6jns wrote: »

Noted. The point is that based on what we have heard the trustee and solicitor need to be told very plainly that they are responsible for the whole mess and must pay the full costs of unscrambling it. Time for the others to take the gloves off.

How do you see the solicitors or A as being responsible?

The mess is the unwillingness of B to follow due process in administration of mums estate.

The trust and trustee are legitimate and as far as I can tell will allow distribution of the estate (in trust) to where mum wanted.

g6jns_2

hundredk wrote: »

How do you see the solicitors or A as being responsible?

The mess is the unwillingness of B to follow due process in administration of mums estate.

The trust and trustee are legitimate and as far as I can tell will allow distribution of the estate (in trust) to where mum wanted.

Post 61 suggests that the trust has not been administered correctly. If that is correct then the trustee must be at fault. To be candid the whole saga is a complete mess. Somebody, presumably the OP needs to get a grip on the situation. It does not seem that the other two executors will.

hundredk

g6jns wrote: »

Post 61 suggests that the trust has not been administered correctly. If that is correct then the trustee must be at fault. To be candid the whole saga is a complete mess. Somebody, presumably the OP needs to get a grip on the situation. It does not seem that the other two executors will.

The trustee (A) had the property title transferred to them and agreed to hold the property in trust. That is what they signed. A has held in trust for 8 years whilst mum was alive. A wishes for correct administration of the will which appears to require the value of the property to be declared on the probate form and accounts. A has no problem in doing this but does not have the know how to find out. Does collection of a nominal rent have to be documented? - if so could 8 years rent be collected from the estate?

OP is trying to get a grip on the situation and protect A's interests from an overbearing B. If probate is forced I'm hoping that it is actually better as if forces B to be more transparent with what is in the estate or be removed as executor.