Three Executors and small estate

g6jns_2

hundredk wrote: »

I understood this to be the case, it seems to me that's the whole point of having a will. I think the next step is to write to him saying what you've said here. Do you know of anywhere I can reference that states original will is required even when administering <£5k as this is what B is claiming so I'd like to call his bluff backed up with legislation.

Well it is so fundamental that in any legal business you have to rely on the original document I don't see you need to quote anything. Certainly the Probate Office will only accept the original other than in wholly exceptional circumstances. Does B think you are stupid?

SevenOfNine

Don't want to stick my neb in here but are you saying that years ago your parents did this with the house? https://www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died/valuing-gifts

It does also states quite clearly on the gov.uk sit that you must value ALL the assets/debts etc which would include the antique furniture.

If the bank accounts were not joint with 'B' for more than 6 years ago, as a named Executor I'd be inclined to ask the bank for account information up to the point before they became joint with 'B'. They can ordinarily go back 6 years (we were obliged to following instructions from the DWP - Barclays sent hundreds of sheets of info! Free of charge). At least you may see what it is 'B' is hiding financially though may not be able to do anything about it because of the current 'joint a/c' status.

As Executor you have responsibilities, " 'B' wouldn't co-operate" isn't going to cut it should the sh t hit the fan.

g6jns_2

SevenOfNine wrote: »

Don't want to stick my neb in here but are you saying that years ago your parents did this with the house? https://www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died/valuing-gifts

It does also states quite clearly on the gov.uk sit that you must value ALL the assets/debts etc which would include the antique furniture.

If the bank accounts were not joint with 'B' for more than 6 years ago, as a named Executor I'd be inclined to ask the bank for account information up to the point before they became joint with 'B'. They can ordinarily go back 6 years (we were obliged to following instructions from the DWP - Barclays sent hundreds of sheets of info! Free of charge). At least you may see what it is 'B' is hiding financially though may not be able to do anything about it because of the current 'joint a/c' status.

As Executor you have responsibilities, " 'B' wouldn't co-operate" isn't going to cut it should the sh t hit the fan.

It would be grounds to have him removed as executor. The trouble is it is a small estate and he may be the classic man of straw. If the solicitor will not cooperate it might be worth remaining him that he is an office of the court and that obligation overrides any to his client.

hundredk

SevenOfNine wrote: »

Don't want to stick my neb in here but are you saying that years ago your parents did this with the house? https://www.gov.uk/valuing-estate-of-someone-who-died/valuing-gifts

It does also states quite clearly on the gov.uk sit that you must value ALL the assets/debts etc which would include the antique furniture.

If the bank accounts were not joint with 'B' for more than 6 years ago, as a named Executor I'd be inclined to ask the bank for account information up to the point before they became joint with 'B'. They can ordinarily go back 6 years (we were obliged to following instructions from the DWP - Barclays sent hundreds of sheets of info! Free of charge). At least you may see what it is 'B' is hiding financially though may not be able to do anything about it because of the current 'joint a/c' status.

As Executor you have responsibilities, " 'B' wouldn't co-operate" isn't going to cut it should the sh t hit the fan.

Yes the house was put in trust as tenants in common, equal shares about 8 years ago. It therefore does not count as part of Mum's estate as the title is not in her name.

It is debatable how much the estate is worth, I'm not expecting it to be huge value but I am taking the stance that it's properly accounted for and valued and only then can we jointly decide if probate is needed or not. I have refused to accept B's verbal claim that the estate is <5k as there are no documents or accounts to support this.

B has had charge of finances for many more that 7 years and A&C always understood this was joint accounts for convenience and Mum would ask for things she needed. B has since said everything is in his name which I'm not sure I believe.

I am conscious of this and intend writing to B to formally ask he carries out his duties collectively or steps down. I realise this may need the expense of solicitors at some stage but trying to avoid that wherever possible.

hundredk

g6jns wrote: »

Well it is so fundamental that in any legal business you have to rely on the original document I don't see you need to quote anything. Certainly the Probate Office will only accept the original other than in wholly exceptional circumstances. Does B think you are stupid?

This is my first administration so I have researched and followed what I believe is the correct process without as yet involving solicitors to save costs.

B claims to have done many and claims he knows it all. The more I think about it, the more I think it's lies and bluff. B has had his way for years and doesn't want anyone else managing things now. I think he thinks he can bluff his way to the result he wants but I'm determined the estate won't be administered just on his say so.

g6jns_2

hundredk wrote: »

This is my first administration so I have researched and followed what I believe is the correct process without as yet involving solicitors to save costs.

B claims to have done many and claims he knows it all. The more I think about it, the more I think it's lies and bluff. B has had his way for years and doesn't want anyone else managing things now. I think he thinks he can bluff his way to the result he wants but I'm determined the estate won't be administered just on his say so.

Good for you. Don't let him get away with his bullying. He may have been on the fiddle for years.

SeniorSam

hundredk If you are a named executor, then the estate cannot be completed without your approval and signature. You should advise your brother accordingly.

I am surprised that this question has not been asked, but with your mother having gifted the house to a Trust 8 years ago and presumably still living in the house, it will not be part of her esatate after 7 years. HOWEVER, if she did not pay a full market rent for 7 years, which has been properly documented and income declared by the Trust, then the the whole value of the proiperty WILL be part of her estate for inheritance tax calculation purposed.

Unfortunately many people made such gifts and were not properly advised, or thought that any gifts after 7 years would be excluded. If the value of the property exceeds the nil rate band of your mother and your father if he passed his estate fully to your mother, then tax may be payable.

Did your mother pay rent to the Trust?

Sam

Sam

hundredk

SeniorSam wrote: »

hundredk If you are a named executor, then the estate cannot be completed without your approval and signature. You should advise your brother accordingly.

I am surprised that this question has not been asked, but with your mother having gifted the house to a Trust 8 years ago and presumably still living in the house, it will not be part of her esatate after 7 years. HOWEVER, if she did not pay a full market rent for 7 years, which has been properly documented and income declared by the Trust, then the the whole value of the proiperty WILL be part of her estate for inheritance tax calculation purposed.

Unfortunately many people made such gifts and were not properly advised, or thought that any gifts after 7 years would be excluded. If the value of the property exceeds the nil rate band of your mother and your father if he passed his estate fully to your mother, then tax may be payable.

Did your mother pay rent to the Trust?

Sam

Sam

Yes I am one of three named executors. B has already been advised verbally that he cannot complete without consensus. A formal letter confirming the same seems inevitable.

The house is in trust since 2006 and the value does not approach inheritance tax thresholds.

Nominal peppercorn rent was due to the trust although it appears there are no records of the payment.

SeniorSam

I am sorry to inform you that a 'nominal peppercorn rent will not satisfy the rules of gifting, as a full market value rent needs to be paid. Whatever the value of the house at the date of death, that value will need to be added to the value of other assets owed in completing the tax return. If it is not correctly completed, the executors may find that there is considerable delay in sorting this out. Any rent received by the Trustees needs to have been declared in the Trustees tax return each year.

From what you have said, it seems that you have been poorly advised, and the Trustees have not been acting correctly. However, they may be able to organise matters if the executores pull together and make a correct declaration. If they ignor the situation, then this could come back on the Trustees and Executors with fines for incorrect submission.

If you are in doubt, then speak with a S.T.E.P solicitor or the tax office, who will confirm what I have said.

Sam

g6jns_2

hundredk wrote: »

Yes I am one of three named executors. B has already been advised verbally that he cannot complete without consensus. A formal letter confirming the same seems inevitable.

The house is in trust since 2006 and the value does not approach inheritance tax thresholds.

Nominal peppercorn rent was due to the trust although it appears there are no records of the payment.

Who are the trustees and who drew up up the trust?