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Problems with Orange, charging for contract that is no more!

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  • mumx3
    mumx3 Posts: 145 Forumite
    Soryy for the confusion, I will try and explain.

    She originally went into store and explained that she did not want to continue her contract as moving abroad.

    Was told she had to give 30 days notice, this she did.

    She went into store as she was not too sure at this point as to weather to keep her number or not, or what she would do re a phone.

    She was told she needed a PAC code in case she wanted to keep her number, and that she had 30 days to use it. They tried to sell her a 6 month contract but she declined.

    She received a text on her old phone telling her that she had until ## date and then she would not be able to use that number anymore, she knew that as the date they stated was the end of the 30 day PAC, so she knew that her phone number would no longer be in use.

    Just before the 30 days (i think the day before) she went back into store and told them that she had decided to go on PAYG, and not keep her old number.

    She brought the Sim and the store took her old Sim out and replaced it with the PAYG sim.

    She asked the guy if that was it, that her old contract had finished and was her account all up to date. He said YES all finished.

    She left the shop with the same phone but a new number and didn't hear a thing until the demand for payment dropped through the door 3 days ago.

    The letter said that they had been trying many times to contact her re late payments??? Not sure in which ways they had tried as she had not received a single thing from them until the letter.

    In all the time she spent in the shop she was NEVER in formed about the PAC business and the account would still run, the guy in store knew exactly her suitation and that she had a PAC code but said nothing to her about it.

    So I still don't think she has done anything wrong, she could not of know about the contract continuing as she was never told.:mad:
  • Silk
    Silk Posts: 4,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    grumbler wrote: »
    How do you know? I expect any nonsense from shop sales people in a shop.
    This isn't supposed to have been nonsense from a shop person it's supposed to have happened when the PAC over the phone by the department issuing the PAC ...they would not have said the contract will end even if she doesn't use it.
    grumbler wrote: »
    Recording of the conversation in a store?
    Re the text, the original story was that it confirmed "that everything had come to an end". Not that I am saying that the story was true.
    No read the post I said recording of the PAC call !!!
    The story keeps changing.
    grumbler wrote: »
    Unlike you and me, many people don't know this 'fact' and aren't supposed to know. The T&C keep silence about this 'fact' either and say only about the notice - without any stipulations. And the T&C is the only legal document - unlike some internal and not intuitive procedures in the 'industry'. .
    Which is why they are told what happens when the PAC is issued
    It's not just about the money
  • Silk
    Silk Posts: 4,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    mumx3 wrote: »
    So I still don't think she has done anything wrong, she could not of know about the contract continuing as she was never told.:mad:
    As we have now gone back yet again to the PAC being issued by text if you read the text it will say about the PAC not being used the contract will continue.


    They will have been trying to contact her on the old number as she didn't use the PAC they will have no knowledge of her new number
    It's not just about the money
  • grumbler
    grumbler Posts: 58,629 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 20 December 2014 at 12:03PM
    MikeWhite wrote: »
    I assume it means recording of the conversation of the phone call that gave her the PAC?

    I have requested many PACs and every single time it has been explicitly explained what happens if they are not used. Not that that proves anything in this case...
    I don't see any indication in this thread that the the PAC was requested over a phone.
    Even if it was the case, the fact that you got full explanations every time doesn't mean that everyone does. If it were the case, similar stories wouldn't keep pooping up on this board.
    Silk wrote: »
    This isn't supposed to have been nonsense from a shop person it's supposed to have happened when the PAC over the phone by the department issuing the PAC ...they would not have said the contract will end even if she doesn't use it.

    No read the post I said recording of the PAC call !!!
    Again, I am under impression that the PAC was requested by the shop staff, and there was no any phone call.
    The story keeps changing.

    Which is why they are told what happens when the PAC is issued
    I don't see any essential changes.
    And I don't understand why you present it as a fact that "they are told".

    Re the text, yes, it would be interesting to see what it actually said. Indeed, it's likely that she failed to read it thoroughly.

    @mumx3: It's bought, not brought FGS!
  • Silk
    Silk Posts: 4,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    grumbler wrote: »

    Again, I am under impression that the PAS was requested by the shop staff.
    Yes it was requested in the shop but that's not the point it's when the PAC is issued that the conditions are described
    grumbler wrote: »
    I don't see any essential changes.
    And I don't understand why you present it as a fact that "they are told".
    The story keeps changing from how the PAC was issued , first by text then by phone call then back to text again.
    Lot's of others not worth going in to.
    When the PAC is issued they are obliged to inform the user of the conditions, prior to that there is no other obligation to discuss them although I fully agree it would be easier if they did although that would rely on sales people knowing what they are doing which is a hard ask most of the time!
    It's not just about the money
  • Silk
    Silk Posts: 4,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    grumbler wrote: »

    Again, I am under impression that the PAC was requested by the shop staff, and there was no any phone call.
    !
    The story changed to issue by phone which was the call to listen to the recording of if it happened
    mumx3 wrote: »
    Just talking to daughter now and she got her PAC code given to her over the phone, she has never received anything in the post with T&C on, When she got given the code she was assured that if she didn't use it in 30 days it would automatically expire along with her contract.
    .
    It's not just about the money
  • grumbler
    grumbler Posts: 58,629 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 20 December 2014 at 12:23PM
    Silk wrote: »
    Yes it was requested in the shop but that's not the point it's when the PAC is issued that the conditions are described
    My understanding is that it was requested by the shop staff and sent by a text later from a 'PAC department'. If so, there can't be any conversation, let alone recorded.
    The story keeps changing from how the PAC was issued , first by text then by phone call then back to text again.
    I don't see anything about a phone call, but this can be just me.
    Lot's of others not worth going in to.
    Simply because there is no anything essential to go into?
    When the PAC is issued they are obliged to inform the user of the conditions,
    Yes, they are obliged, but this doesn't mean that they always do this and/or do this correctly - like for any 'obligation'. Hence my comment above about endless stories keeping popping up.
  • Silk
    Silk Posts: 4,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    grumbler wrote: »

    I don't see anything about a phone call, but this can be just me.
    .
    quoted for you above
    It's not just about the money
  • mumx3
    mumx3 Posts: 145 Forumite
    Silk wrote: »
    Yes it was requested in the shop but that's not the point it's when the PAC is issued that the conditions are described

    The story keeps changing from how the PAC was issued , first by text then by phone call then back to text again.
    Lot's of others not worth going in to.
    When the PAC is issued they are obliged to inform the user of the conditions, prior to that there is no other obligation to discuss them although I fully agree it would be easier if they did although that would rely on sales people knowing what they are doing which is a hard ask most of the time!

    The PAC was given over the phone, at no point were the terms and conditions told, she was only told it lasts 30days!

    This morning she has another letter dated 16th, "Act now to avoid debt collection"
    Saying they have contacted her a number of times!! They HAVEN'T!!

    She is now finally on the phone talking to an English person so will update after the call.
  • You could raise a complaint to Orange and the raise to the regulator for unfair contract term detrimental to the contract.
    Unfortunately, Ofcom are a text book example of the proverb tail wagging the dog.
    I do Contracts, all day every day.
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