Vodafone - Alternative Roaming Provider in France?

eddddy

Does anyone have experience of using an 'Alternative Roaming Provider' with a Vodafone SIM in France?

Vodafone tell me that they have ARP agreements with Bouygues Telecom and SFR in France, but were a bit vague about how to actually set up the ARP.

(or failing that has anyone had experience of setting up an ARP with any UK SIM card in France? If so what process did you follow?)

Thanks

grumbler

Is it not just a matter of selecting manually the network you want from the list of available networks?

eddddy

grumbler wrote: »

Is it not just a matter of selecting manually the network you want from the list of available networks?

No - you need to sign up with the Alternative Roaming Provider first apparently. And I'm wondering how you do that.


Here's some limited info quoted from Vodafone's website:

How do I sign up with an ARP?

First and most importantly, the Alternative Roaming Provider you choose needs to have an agreement with Vodafone. Once you've chosen one that does, you need to go through their sign-up process. Make sure you have no roaming or data bars on your account before you try to sign up with an ARP, or your request could be rejected.

Who will charge me for roaming?

You'll be charged for your roaming minutes, texts and data in our Europe Zone 1 by the Alternative Roaming Provider you choose to use. They'll tell you how they'll charge you when you agree to use their services. We'll charge you for all other roaming services. We'll also charge you for calls outside our Europe Zone 1 and to non-EU/EEA numbers, and to premium-rate numbers.

Link: http://help.vodafone.co.uk/system/selfservice.controller?CONFIGURATION=1000&PARTITION_ID=1&CMD=BROWSE_TOPIC&USERTYPE=1&LANGUAGE=en&COUNTRY=us&TOPIC_ID=436396&PARENT_TOPIC_ID=1221&SOURCE_FORM=TOPIC_TREE&DISPLAY=SUBTOPICARTICLES

redux

I didn't know this was even happening yet.

The regulations mandate that it's available from December next year, but if Vodafone are doing so sooner that may be interesting.

Note that you choose one other provider for all Europe, not per country. Or so it seems, and I don't know how often you can change your mind.

Frankly I wouldn't bother with it yet, as don't understand it or expect the new system to have produced a surfeit of interesting tariffs yet. I'm not sure that I would use either SFR or Bouygues themselves there anyway, partly tariffs and partly as you may need a French address or paying with a UK card may be an issue.

Check Vodafone's tariffs, like their EuroTraveller £3 daily fee for using your bundle. But note there isn't a daily fee if you only receive calls.

Or some other options to consider.

If you expect quite a bit of use there, local calls and/or data, look at Joe Mobile and consider setting up a separate callthrough provider for calls to UK.

Or for mainly calls but not a huge number, you might consider Toggle Mobile at 3p a minute to UK.

Or get a Three payg SIM and add a monthly bundle, which is usable in their Feel at Home scheme exactly the same from France as in UK.

You could divert your incoming Vodafone arecalls to either Toggle or Three, using your bundle of minutes. Take 2 phones, so as to receive texts on your normal number, and use the other for whatever other SIM.

seaviewing

Frankly I wouldn't bother with it yet, as don't understand it or expect the new system to have produced a surfeit of interesting tariffs yet. I'm not sure that I would use either SFR or Bouygues themselves there anyway, partly tariffs and partly as you may need a French address or paying with a UK card may be an issue.

I'm not one to normally comment on someones elses advice but thats not the best you've given there is it?

You wouldnt bother as you don't understand it and you seriously reckon that to use an ARP you'll need an address and card in the country you're visiting?

The point is the local company (SFR)are supposed to be cheaper than the foreign one (Vodafone) or else one wouldn't use them - saying don't bother just pay the £3 per day isn't exactly great advice.

eddddy

Thanks for the replies.

I had investigated the Vodafone 'EuroTraveller' and Three 'Feel at Home' - neither is ideal.

Essentially I want a solution that is equivalent to a PAYG SIM in the UK and a PAYG SIM in France - but with just one SIM. Not enough usage to justify a 'bundle'. (An elderly person who splits his time between homes in France and UK, and mainly uses his landlines.)

Here are the problems with Three 'Feel at Home':

His calls to French numbers: 18.8p per minute
French callers calling his mobile pay 'international mobile' rates
He will probably only make 10 to 20 mins of calls per month - so £10 per month is high.
He will receive lots of calls - so free to receive calls in France/UK is good.

Vodafone's £3 per day when used is not economic (likely to be just one call at most in a day).

(And he has UK and French Addresses, plus UK and French cards.)

grumbler

Check Toggle Mobile with an extra local French number: 3p/min in France to call to France/UK, free incoming calls.
http://www.togglemobile.co.uk/tariffs/en
http://www.togglemobile.co.uk/pdfs/toggle-UK-userguide_en.pdf

I don't remember though and can't find whether their 'local' number costs anything.

redux

seaviewing wrote: »

I'm not one to normally comment on someones elses advice but thats not the best you've given there is it?

You wouldnt bother as you don't understand it and you seriously reckon that to use an ARP you'll need an address and card in the country you're visiting?

The point is the local company (SFR)are supposed to be cheaper than the foreign one (Vodafone) or else one wouldn't use them - saying don't bother just pay the £3 per day isn't exactly great advice.

I didn't say just pay the £3 a day. I said be aware of it, avoid it if you can, and also there are several other options, of which these may be the most interesting ...

Some French mobile brands do indeed need a French address for either delivery of SIM card or domicile of account details. If you walk into a shop to buy a payg SIM you'll have more choice in what is available, but still not all of them.

Some French mobile networks (as well as other French businesses including fuel forecourts) do not accept British credit and debit cards online, just as some British networks do not accept foreign payment cards online. Again, in the shop a British card would be ok for both original purchase and voucher based top-ups, but for a more formal arrangement expected to last a longer time and with an account too it might become an issue.

If you know more about specific brands than me, we would welcome your comments, just as if you think SFR or Bouygues have cheaper options than those I gave afterwards (albeit that Joe is owned by SFR) perhaps you could give details.

The EU regulation mandates that from next December networks must offer the same tariffs while roaming in EU than at home, and/or must allow use of an alternative roaming providers or local breakouts.

So it isn't entirely clear why Vodafone are already mentioning this, or given that they are, what it implies about their future policy or practice, or why they have very sparse detail on the website about how to arrange things with the other network, and their staff seem ignorant so far.

Maybe Vodafone will be offering to act as intermediary with the French networks to help overcome some of the issues mentioned above.

Or maybe they won't, and they might be in a stubborn and pedantic mood intending to show that the regulators and politicians haven't got the right solutions yet either. This has after all been most of the networks' attitude for many years so far, confounding the politicians who have been so exasperated at network persistence that the single European market just doesn't apply to them.

Can you tell us if you know anything about this? If not, perhaps you could tone down your criticism of my remark that I wouldn't bother.

It isn't yet clear how many alternative roaming deals will be come available, though one that I would be interested in, not necessarily for this case, is Orange Spain's data roaming at 1 Euro a day for 100 megabytes. But I'd do it by just getting a separate SIM.

That's the usual key to better deals, especially for local data bundles: look at other SIMs. Have a degree of independence from either commitment to just one brand, or from being taken along fully with the regulatory positions and solutions either.

redux

eddddy wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

I had investigated the Vodafone 'EuroTraveller' and Three 'Feel at Home' - neither is ideal.

Essentially I want a solution that is equivalent to a PAYG SIM in the UK and a PAYG SIM in France - but with just one SIM. Not enough usage to justify a 'bundle'. (An elderly person who splits his time between homes in France and UK, and mainly uses his landlines.)

Here are the problems with Three 'Feel at Home':

His calls to French numbers: 18.8p per minute
French callers calling his mobile pay 'international mobile' rates
He will probably only make 10 to 20 mins of calls per month - so £10 per month is high.
He will receive lots of calls - so free to receive calls in France/UK is good.

Vodafone's £3 per day when used is not economic (likely to be just one call at most in a day).

(And he has UK and French Addresses, plus UK and French cards.)

I mentioned it already, and I agree with grumbler that Toggle Mobile sounds the best choice for that usage.

To answer grumbler's query on the cost of adding a French number, one is issued free for 30 days use, or there is an option to keep the same number permanently for a fee of £5 a year. Given the likely amount of incoming calls (perhaps from both countries?), I'd say go for that.

One slight caution for actual practice. The Toggle SIM only uses the UK number for outgoing caller ID. So if calling someone in France and they will call back in a few minutes, there might be a bit of coaching to remember to call the French number from the contacts phone book, rather than just return to the UK number via the call history.

If there's also a need for significant amounts of mobile data, then Joe might be useful. This does accept debit and credit cards from countries that neighbour France (plus Netherlands).

d123

redux wrote: »

Some French mobile networks (as well as other French businesses including fuel forecourts) do not accept British credit and debit cards online

How/why would you be buying something from a fuel forecourt online???

redux wrote: »

The EU regulation mandates that from next December networks must offer the same tariffs while roaming in EU than at home, and/or must allow use of an alternative roaming providers or local breakouts.

It seems more like you don't know anything about ARP rather than not understanding them, the regulations relating to them came into force in July 2014

Under Article 4 of EU regulation 531/2012:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32012R0531&from=EN

The regulation mandates that by July 2014, European customers will be able to purchase roaming services from alternative roaming providers (ARPs), regardless of their domestic services provider (DSP), while using the same SIM card or mobile device. Service providers will be required to enable their roaming subscribers to access services - such as voice, SMS and data roaming - provided by any ARP.

Article 4

Separate sale of regulated retail roaming services

1. Domestic providers shall enable their customers to access regulated voice, SMS and data roaming services, provided as a bundle by any alternative roaming provider.
Neither domestic nor roaming providers shall prevent customers from accessing regulated data roaming services provided directly on a visited network by an alternative roaming provider.

2. Roaming customers shall have the right to switch roaming provider at any time. Where a roaming customer chooses to switch roaming provider, the switch shall be carried out without undue delay, and in any case within the shortest possible period of time depending on the technical solution chosen for the implementation of the separate sale of regulated retail roaming services, but under no circumstances exceeding three working days from the conclusion of the agreement with the new roaming provider.

3. The switch to an alternative roaming provider or between roaming providers shall be free of charge for customers and shall be possible under any tariff plan. It shall not entail any associated subscription or additional fixed or recurring charges, pertaining to elements of the subscription other than roaming, as compared to the conditions prevailing before the switch.

4. Domestic providers shall inform all their roaming customers in a clear, understandable and easily accessible form about the possibility to opt for services referred to in the first subparagraph of paragraph 1.

In particular, at the time of making or renewing a contract on mobile communication services, domestic providers shall provide all their customers individually with full information on the possibility to choose an alternative roaming provider and shall not hinder the conclusion of a contract with an alternative roaming provider. Customers concluding a contract with a domestic provider for regulated roaming services shall explicitly confirm that they have been informed of such possibility. A domestic provider shall not prevent, dissuade or discourage retailers serving as the domestic provider’s points of sale from offering contracts for separate roaming services with alternative roaming providers.

5. The technical characteristics of regulated roaming services shall not be altered in such a way as to make them differ from the technical characteristics of the regulated roaming services, including the quality parameters, as provided to the customer before the switch. Where the switch does not concern all regulated roaming services, those services which have not been switched shall continue to be provided at the same price and, to the fullest extent possible, with the same technical characteristics, including quality parameters.

6. This Article shall apply from 1 July 2014.

redux

d123 wrote: »

How/why would you be buying something from a fuel forecourt online???



It seems more like you don't know anything about ARP rather than not understanding them, the regulations relating to them came into force in July 2014

Sorry, yes the word online is redundant for that use, but it does happen. We tried filling up at one automatic forecourt and 5 different UK cards from 2 holders were rejected. Most mobile networks don't accept foreign payments, so that might be an obstacle, unless the home network will act as an enabling partner(which seems a bit unlikely).

So where is the detailed Vodafone information about how to do this, and what help are their staff giving to someone who can't find it?

Part of the reason I wouldn't bother is because, as I already said, that alternative roaming provider might be used in other countries too. So if I was going to consider Bouygues as Vodafone suggested, first I might not be able to get an account, and then I might not like their tariffs in a third country like Germany.

On top of all of that, I'm not actually confident that the OP's question to Vodafone has accurately answered; perhaps they were confused and only talking about roaming partners. Or maybe about local breakout.

And what extra information can you give us?

What is the actual definition of an alternative roaming provider, and have you found a list of them and their offers? Do all use only the original IMSI, with some arrangement between the companies, or do some need an extra identity added to the SIM?

I maintain my position, that information on all of this is still too sparse, that specific part of EU regulation isn't necessarily the ideal outcome for some users, I still wouldn't bother yet, and Toggle looks a useful option for the OP's case.