Should People Have Children If They Cant Afford Them

Carmina-Piranha_2

TBeckett100 wrote: »

Poor people fill their council houses with kids and use them as an income.
Middle class have what they can afford, usually one or two because they have to foot the bill

The government needs to do state vasectomies when a man applies for benefits and reverse it when he finds a job. Otherwise a benefits couple end up having 4 kids who largely become no hopers and those four will have 4 each so the next generation sees 4 second generation middle class working to support 16 poor class children, and so it continues.

Middle class people would also be given money from the state for each child if their income was below a certain threshold. Living in a council house isn't a requirement for tax credits!

indsty

In a nutshell - if you have a child you should be able to feed, clothe and nurture it. Actually those three things can cost remarkably little. What annoys me are the parents who want their child to have all the latest gadgets, brand names, ballet lessons, football lessons, holidays abroad every year and then claim they are too hard up and expect other people to pay.

Mrshaworth2b

On the other side, there are many people in this country using food banks, even though they work, unable to feed their family and to pay the bills. What are we saying about them? Looking in they look like they should be able to afford their kids but yet they can't feed them

kingfisherblue

borkid wrote: »

I read the OP as deciding to have children when you were already unable to support them and not through a change of circumstances out of your control. Your case is different as the circunstances are out of your control, this is what the benefits system is for and not lifestyle choices ie "I want 4 children but don't earn enough well never mind I'll have them and tax credits will make up the shortfall " attitude.

Point taken. I was just illustrating that some people do have the ability to pay their own way for their kids, but then circumstances change. I agree that the welfare system is there to support those who need it, and not for those who use it as a lifestyle choice.

bluelass

The lady I refer to in this post is my stepson's partner. No one begrudges them anything. But she is one of those people who thinks having a child is a good bargaining tool.

bluelass

geerex wrote: »

Oh, the namby pamby liberals and dole scum on here won't like you!!

I agree, geldof is a fool at best, and at worst a mass murderer. Instead of letting tens of thousands die, he wanted to feed them, allowing them to breed on land which can't support them, meaning yet more charity crappy concerts or allowing hundreds of thousands to die.

Luckily for them, they all bought plane tickets and now live in London :T

I don't agree with ethnic cleansing or racism in any way. But your point on breeding does have a reasoning. Poor countries with no social welfare or proper healthcare system isn't the right environment to over populate. This is unsustainable and causes misery, contraception and sexual awareness and education are needed not money to encourage more breeding and backward views. Until this happens then it will never change for the better.:(

Gavin83

TBeckett100 wrote: »

Poor people fill their council houses with kids and use them as an income.
Middle class have what they can afford, usually one or two because they have to foot the bill

The government needs to do state vasectomies when a man applies for benefits and reverse it when he finds a job. Otherwise a benefits couple end up having 4 kids who largely become no hopers and those four will have 4 each so the next generation sees 4 second generation middle class working to support 16 poor class children, and so it continues.

I think state vasectomies are a step to far but I agree with the principle that the wrong people are breeding. We have a situation where families with two parents who have never worked are having 8 kids for benefit reasons. The likelyhood is that these children will grow up not wanting to work either. Similarly middle earners are breeding less and later. We don't want the first group of people, they are a drain on soceity in every way possible.

I think the real solution is to make it financially unviable for those without jobs to have children. Remove child related benefits totally. Then those who are having children effectively for a career won't bother anymore as the financial incentives aren't there and those who truly want children will be more motivated to find a job.

We could maybe look at providing incentives for those with both parents currently in work, maybe via reduced (or even free) child care.

TBeckett100 wrote: »

As a man it bitterly annoys me that we can just walk away and start again leaving the woman to cope for 6 days a week. I'm not sure if when divorcing I could ever just see my daughter once a week. I wouldn't fight for custody as that is grossly unfair all round.

To be fair most men don't really have a choice. The court still massively favours women in custody battles. Of course there are men who just choose to walk away but for every one of them they'll be another who'd love nothing more than to have a couple of extra days with his kids. Maybe courts should just start awarding joint custody as standard?

catkins wrote: »

Exactly! I don't understand why there is such a thing as child allowance at all. This country and the planet are overpopulated so why give money to people to make it even more so?

The problem is because of the way the country is setup we need children. With an ever aging population and the benefits system setup the way it is we'll need more and more children to provide tax revenues in the future. The real issue is the wrong people are breeding.

Gavin83

bluelass wrote: »

I don't agree with ethnic cleansing or racism in any way. But your point on breeding does have a reasoning. Poor countries with no social welfare or proper healthcare system isn't the right environment to over populate. This is unsustainable and causes misery, contraception and sexual awareness and education are needed not money to encourage more breeding and backward views. Until this happens then it will never change for the better.:(

The problem wth 3rd world countries is that they take almost an animal kingdom stance on breeding. They're well aware a good percentage of their children will die before reaching a useful age and therefore they have as many as possible to improve their chances. Until standards improve if those familes only had a few kids the truth of the matter is most would grow up childless.

It's a totally different situation in this country though.

bluelass

:rotfl:

Gavin83 wrote: »

I think state vasectomies are a step to far but I agree with the principle that the wrong people are breeding. We have a situation where families with two parents who have never worked are having 8 kids for benefit reasons. The likelyhood is that these children will grow up not wanting to work either. Similarly middle earners are breeding less and later. We don't want the first group of people, they are a drain on soceity in every way possible.

I think the real solution is to make it financially unviable for those without jobs to have children. Remove child related benefits totally. Then those who are having children effectively for a career won't bother anymore as the financial incentives aren't there and those who truly want children will be more motivated to find a job.

We could maybe look at providing incentives for those with both parents currently in work, maybe via reduced (or even free) child care.



To be fair most men don't really have a choice. The court still massively favours women in custody battles. Of course there are men who just choose to walk away but for every one of them they'll be another who'd love nothing more than to have a couple of extra days with his kids. Maybe courts should just start awarding joint custody as standard?



The problem is because of the way the country is setup we need children. With an ever aging population and the benefits system setup the way it is we'll need more and more children to provide tax revenues in the future. The real issue is the wrong people are breeding.

You took the words right out of my mouth:) Sorry to meatloaf for any signs of plagarism

BoJangles_2

What annoys me is people asking for bigger council properties when they are just above full capacity and then go on to have more kids and then complain about it!