Should People Have Children If They Cant Afford Them

sulphate

purpleshoes wrote: »

People who have kids and are on certain benefits wont be raising them in poverty. Thats why child tax credits came into being, to get people out of the poverty trap.

Its not ideal because it sets people in a situation where they are better off out of work than in, but if people do have kids and are on benefits, they might not have a lot of spare cash, but I doubt they are looking at a poverty situation.

Also, the percentage of peoples taxes that go to benefits is miniscule compared to other spending, such as wars

Something papers like the daily mail forgets

Its parenting thats the issue as far as Im concerned. Not whether someone is on benefit or whether they dont have much cash

The issue is that a lot of the time parents who don't work and have no intention of doing so often have children who follow the same route because they don't know any different. This means you might have generations of the same family who take from the system and never put anything into it.

So whilst they might not be dirt poor they often are stuck in a rut.

I do believe in supporting families and don't believe only rich people should be able to have children. But also believe that people shouldn't plan to have a family if their only income will be from the state.

TBeckett100

i cannot understand it

If you can't afford a private house and cannot sustain yourself, why are they breeding? It makes no sense at all.

I would hate to die and leave my children nothing but some tat I bought at a seaside gift shop in 1984

Something must be done to increase breeding amongst the successful classes to counteract the generations of low income no hopers

I wonder if the dole office could put something in the air conditioning system to kill off the reproductive system or out something in the glue you lick on benefit application forms

purpleshoes_2

northerntwo1 wrote: »

It's not just benefits. Why is the government creating 2 year child care places? Why do schools get more money per child on benefits? Why is social services involved more with families on low incomes? Why are asbo's more prevelent in low income families?

Do you think the governebt decided we are rich enough to throw money at a group that don't need it or is there a correlation between success and poverty?

Sure starts and the like occurred for a reason and there's a reason why the education system gets more per child who is on no income. That reason is well researched. They are disadvantaged as a group. I'm a health visitor and see parents of all financial stature but ... Most of my time is spent on low income families. There are some amazing low income families but overall their children need services, finances, support and additional funding. That can't be denied as research shows this clearly.

I grew up in a family that didnt have much spare cash. Ive never had an asbo, nor has any member of my family. Never been caught up in the criminal justice system.

Ive seen it from the sharp end as well, Im a qualified community education and addiction worker, but as I said before, Ive seen many young people from families that have a lot of money go off the rails. I worked in addiction and homeless services for almost 20 years and the people who lived in the units I worked in came from all backgrounds, not just ones that didnt have a lot of money.

I know people who work who use the 15 hours free at nursery because they are short of cash

I live in one of the worst estates in my home town. Ive been here 20 years and had issues with one anti social family. Ive never felt unsafe. The people who live on the estate I live in are the people who have been written off by some people on this thread.

Some dont have much money, but are getting on with it, dont have asbos, dont have social work involvement.

The one family I described earlier, thats the one who was off the rails, but as I said, I firmly believe that was a parenting issue, not a poverty issue

I grew up with not a lot of spare cash around as did my mum and her brother before me. But we had encouragement to make the most of our lives and a parent who cared what we did and where we were

TBeckett100

Also, when you go to buy a cat from a rescue place, you have to jump though all hoops and have them round checking you haven't got any Rolf Harris paintings

When breeding, no checks are done. Just lay there in the council flat thinking of England

purpleshoes_2

TBeckett100 wrote: »

i cannot understand it

If you can't afford a private house and cannot sustain yourself, why are they breeding? It makes no sense at all.

I would hate to die and leave my children nothing but some tat I bought at a seaside gift shop in 1984

Something must be done to increase breeding amongst the successful classes to counteract the generations of low income no hopers

I grew up in a council house. My mum bought it over 20 years ago and shes going to leave it to me and my brother, but if she left me nothing I wouldnt care, she could leave it to charity for all I care, Id rather have her around.

Your posts are just looking for a reaction. Sad.

Lots of people cant get on the property ladder, doesn't make them no hopers.

purpleshoes_2

TBeckett100 wrote: »

Also, when you go to buy a cat from a rescue place, you have to jump though all hoops and have them round checking you haven't got any Rolf Harris paintings

When breeding, no checks are done. Just lay there in the council flat thinking of England

Scotland:rotfl:

I dont have kids by the way but Ive rescued cats from a rescue place, no one made me jump through hoops or came round to check on me

Maybe us plebs do it differently north of the border

Thanks for the laugh:T

northerntwo1

purpleshoes wrote: »

I grew up in a family that didnt have much spare cash. Ive never had an asbo, nor has any member of my family. Never been caught up in the criminal justice system.

Ive seen it from the sharp end as well, Im a qualified community education and addiction worker, but as I said before, Ive seen many young people from families that have a lot of money go off the rails. I worked in addiction and homeless services for almost 20 years and the people who lived in the units I worked in came from all backgrounds, not just ones that didnt have a lot of money.

I know people who work who use the 15 hours free at nursery because they are short of cash

I live in one of the worst estates in my home town. Ive been here 20 years and had issues with one anti social family. Ive never felt unsafe. The people who live on the estate I live in are the people who have been written off by some people on this thread.

Some dont have much money, but are getting on with it, dont have asbos, dont have social work involvement.

The one family I described earlier, thats the one who was off the rails, but as I said, I firmly believe that was a parenting issue, not a poverty issue

I grew up with not a lot of spare cash around as did my mum and her brother before me. But we had encouragement to make the most of our lives and a parent who cared what we did and where we were

They are known as outliers in the statistics. You will always get those who succeed I've attended a graduation today of a young parent raised in care who had a child young as a social worker. She will be an amazing SW. Is it the norm, no it's not.
The 2 year funding is not for workers, it's for disadvantaged children, financially or disability related. It's done via income, post code or referral. Ask any none disability social worker who takes up their time. It can't be denied. Income isn't everything but raising children in poverty LONG TERM shouldn't be a choice people would make. People are forced to make it via divorce, disability etc but by choice it's not common. If you are on means tested benefits (excluding childcare and child benefits) then your children are needing public assistance to avoid poverty.

If they pulled tax credits tomorrow what would happen? Also you give money aka CTC and we still have poverty as all it does is raise the poverty limit until children dip below. We don't address issues we just throw money which for a certain group isn't working.

Mrs_Ryan

Hey TBeckett are you my ex's Dad? :rotfl:
Because I grew up in a council house with two parents who didn't work he quite confidently stated I would fail my A-Levels and by the age of 21 I would be living in a grotty council flat with three kids and no idea who the father was, and would have no qualifications and no prospects.
I would love to meet him again just so I could see his face when I tell him that I didn't fail my A-Levels, I have no children and the house we live in is mortgaged (and worth more than the one he was living in at the time) oh yes and I'm on my way to being more qualified than him
He was a scumbag. He got fired from his job in a Catholic boys school for having a very public affair with the history teacher and getting her pregnant. And yet he was oh so high and mighty.
Moral of the story- let those without sin cast the first stone or those who bleat inevitably aren't as perfect as they make themselves out to be.

Mojisola

But isn't it down to an attitude and/or parenting issue - not strictly a low income problem?

purpleshoes_2

northerntwo1 wrote: »

They are known as outliers in the statistics. You will always get those who succeed I've attended a graduation today of a young parent raised in care who had a child young as a social worker. She will be an amazing SW. Is it the norm, no it's not.
The 2 year funding is not for workers, it's for disadvantaged children, financially or disability related. It's done via income, post code or referral. Ask any none disability social worker who takes up their time. It can't be denied. Income isn't everything but raising children in poverty LONG TERM shouldn't be a choice people would make. People are forced to make it via divorce, disability etc but by choice it's not common. If you are on means tested benefits (excluding childcare and child benefits) then your children are needing public assistance to avoid poverty.

If they pulled tax credits tomorrow what would happen? Also you give money aka CTC and we still have poverty as all it does is raise the poverty limit until children dip below. We don't address issues we just throw money which for a certain group isn't working.

As I said earlier in the thread my mum had me at 19. There was no such thing as working tax or child tax credits in those days. She managed. She would have managed better if my dad had contributed but he didnt.

She had far less money to bring me up than some people I see around me where I live and they cant manage. But she did.

But as Ive said before, a lot of people live in dysfunction and thats the issue. The girl Ive spoken about who was my neighbour, wasnt living in poverty, she just made poor choices

I have another neighbour who has 4 kids and who is in and out of jail. Shes 36, shes content to sit her life out on benefits and live the way she lives and her sons are also caught up in the criminal justice system. Its the not giving a hoot about where your kids are and what they are doing that matters as far as Im concerned, I said earlier that Ive worked in places where you cant go out and do youth work alone because the kids are off their face from the money given by their well off parents. I just think the working classes get demonised at times.

The teenager going off the rails could have been my mum, but it wasnt. What the difference is, I have no idea, because there was very little difference in the area my mum grew up in than some of my neighbours, in fact when my mum was growing up in the 50s, her parents probably had less disposable income than some of my neighbours with kids have now

Its not all about money as far as Im concerned, its something else.