35mph on a 30mph road - no 30mph/camera sign?

maninthestreet

fluffybunny wrote: »

I was on a dual carriageway which was 70. Came off into a roundabout with four exits.
My exit only said NEW 30MPH IN FORCE on the right as you join the road .
The first circular sign saying a number is 40mph around a mile from the roundabout

Does google street view give any further clues??

Marktheshark

fluffybunny wrote: »

I was on a dual carriageway which was 70. Came off into a roundabout with four exits.
My exit only said NEW 30MPH IN FORCE on the right as you join the road .
The first circular sign saying a number is 40mph around a mile from the roundabout

Your only defence on that info would be if you could prove by way of video evidence and photographs that you left a 70MPH signed limit, entered another road where no sign that meets statutory regulations was fitted cancelling the 70 MPH limit to a 30 MPH limit.
You will have to trace the route and gather evidence.

fluffybunny_2

Marktheshark wrote: »

Where a 40 MPH limit is rescinded to 30 mph there is no need to re-sign it, as all non motorway urban roads are all 30 MPH unless the 30 MPH limit is cancelled by another sign.
So if ten mile down the road before you set off, is a 30 MPH sign, the whole road is 30MPH until it needs to be cancelled out by another sign.
It does not get repeated.
If you came from a 30 MPH limit on to another road via a roundabout , no sign means it is still a 30 MPH limit.
Stick to this rule in future and ignore the gadget.

I came from a 70mph dual carriageway , onto a roundabout , onto this road

Marktheshark

fluffybunny wrote: »

I came from a 70mph dual carriageway , onto a roundabout , onto this road

As said trace the route out, are there any signs before the roundabout on the dual carriageway slip road or end ? You might have missed the 30 MPH sign as often they are before the roundabouts for obvious reasons.
If it was they dont need another 30 MPH sign on any exit.
You need to find out.
That is if you are determined to challenge it or have you just come to rant before filling in the paperwork.

Guys_Dad

Marktheshark wrote: »

Your only defence on that info would be if you could prove by way of video evidence and photographs that you left a 70MPH signed limit, entered another road where no sign that meets statutory regulations was fitted cancelling the 70 MPH limit to a 30 MPH limit.
You will have to trace the route and gather evidence.

This is exactly the point. See my previous links and as I said, if the signs are non compliant, you have not committed any offence.

When you retrace your steps and come off the roundabout on to the dual carriageway, presumably there are signs indicating that you are leaving a slower speed zone http://www.tickld.com/pic/t/78667 (or even ones saying 70 mph ?

If so, then there should be corresponding 30mph signs when you leave the dual carriageway and enter the said road,

Local newspaper would be interested in this and you should check with the Highways department about why their signs are non compliant.

Marktheshark

Guys_Dad wrote: »

This is exactly the point. See my previous links and as I said, if the signs are non compliant, you have not committed any offence.

When you retrace your steps and come off the roundabout on to the dual carriageway, presumably there are signs indicating that you are leaving a slower speed zone http://www.tickld.com/pic/t/78667 (or even ones saying 70 mph ?

If so, then there should be corresponding 30mph signs when you leave the dual carriageway and enter the said road,

Local newspaper would be interested in this and you should check with the Highways department about why their signs are non compliant.

Yes basically, but just check its not on the dual carriageway end or slip road as if all the other exists are continuations of other 30 mph, they dont need signs and repeaters are not necessary for 30 MPH.
All they need to be able to show is you passed one 30 mph sign and its game over with the Magistrates.

Guys_Dad

Marktheshark wrote: »

Yes basically, but just check its not on the dual carriageway end or slip road as if all the other exists are continuations of other 30 mph, they dont need signs and repeaters are not necessary for 30 MPH.
All they need to be able to show is you passed one 30 mph sign and its game over with the Magistrates.

That is a 30mph sign that adheres to the regulations.

andy_foster

Guys_Dad wrote: »

This is exactly the point. See my previous links and as I said, if the signs are non compliant, you have not committed any offence.

Not quite. The statutory defence applies where there is no compliant system of streetlighting and defective/missing speed limit signage. Without doing considerable violence to the language of the statute it seems difficult to apply the defence to missing terminal signs at the start of a 30mph restricted road. However, where a reasonable driver would have been unaware of the speed limit due to defective signage, there would seem to be strong grounds for special reasons not to endorse and an absolute discharge - although it might be easier to get the 'safety camera' partnership to drop it if the signs are defective.


S. 85(4) RTRA 1984

(4) Where no such system of street or carriageway lighting as is mentioned in section 82(1) is provided on a road, but a limit of speed is to be observed on the road, a person shall not be convicted of driving a motor vehicle on the road at a speed exceeding the limit unless the limit is indicated by means of such traffic signs as are mentioned in subsection (1) or subsection (2) above.

sinizterguy

esuhl wrote: »

I find it a little worrying that anyone would be confused as to whether the speed limit was 30 or 60mph! There's usually a pretty noticeable difference between roads with such widely differing speed limits.

Not everywhere.

If you have not seen such, that may be because you haven't driven around some of the more rural areas a lot.

There are many 30 zones that are unnecessarily long going into and out of villages where there are no streetlights, or other aids to make you think it is a 30.

Feel free to comment on my personal driving if you wish - But I do 36k miles a year, treat all speed limits except 30 and 40 zones as advisory, have no points and couldn't care a whit about what anyone else thinks about that.

fluffybunny_2

ok...I've just been onto streetview and you can see what I can see. If I cant upload it properly, its in Aberdulais, Wales. I was on the A465 and I went onto the roundabout with five exits (i thought it was four) I exited onto the A4109 heading for Seven Sisters.
You can see the red sign on the right but there's nothing on the left. Also, there's no 30mph signs at all on streetview or camera signs either