LDK PCN Query

Mav62

Hi all,

I wonder if I could ask for your opinions please.

I was issued with a PCN, by LDK, at the beginning of the month, whilst I was visiting a relative in a block of private apartments (in England) - my relative let me into the car park, by raising the barrier. No officials were available in the managed block to issue a visitors parking permit (free of charge), so I just left a note on the dashboard saying I was visiting. On my return to the car, I’d been issued with a PCN for not displaying a permit.

Am I right in thinking I don’t need to do anything until I receive a NTK? I was tempted to appeal before the NTK has been issued, but, following the flowchart, it says this is only necessary if the PPC is NCP or a small company.

Signs, saying ‘Permit Holders Parking Only’ were clearly visible when I parked, and are shown, with my car, on LDK’s website. So, looking forward to when I receive the NTK and I need to make a soft appeal, what grounds for appeal do I use? The only argument that seems applicable (apart from the mitigating circumstances of nobody being available to issue a permit) is ‘genuine pre-estimate of loss’. As I see it, permits are issued free of change, therefore there is no loss to the landowner. There are no nearby shops, so I wasn’t restricting their income by taking up a parking spot, and there were plenty of empty spaces, as seen on LDK’s own evidence photographs!

What are your thoughts?

Mav

Coupon-mad

That's right you wait for the NTK then forget about 'finding grounds for appeal', just send the full first appeal template letter from the NEWBIES thread (yes including the signage point as well, leave it all in). What you do NOT do is write as driver about what happened!

Mav62

OK, thanks Coupon-mad.

Coupon-mad

See you again here after Christmas then - in 2015 - as the NTK will be late I suspect and may look like a debt collector letter rather than a Notice. 'Late' and 'non-compliant' is all good for your side of the appeal!

Mav62

[FONT=&quot]As an update: the NTK arrived late, over 70 days after the original PCN was issued.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I filled in the on-line appeals form on 16th January, 3 days after the date on the NTK, and received an auto-reply e-mail saying “Your appeal has been received and will be dealt with in due course”. I’ve since heard nothing.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]When should I expect an acceptance or rejection of my appeal? Do I need to do anything further, before the 28 days appeal notice expires? i.e. in the next 3 days.[/FONT]

Mav62

As expected, my appeal to the PPC has been rejected. Here then, is my appeal letter to POPLA. These are the only two points I think I have grounds for appeal on. Please could you have a read through and let me know your thoughts?

Dear POPLA,

Verification code: **********
PCN Ref: ******
Vehicle registration number: *******
Operator: LDK Security Group Ltd.

A Parking Charge Notice was issued by LDK Security Group Ltd. on 1st November 2014, but I believe it was unfairly issued. As keeper of the vehicle I am appealing against this Parking Charge Notice for the following reasons:

1. The charge is disproportionate and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss

The amount LDK Security Group Ltd. has charged (£125) is not based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss, to them or the landowner.

According to the Unfair Consumer Contract Regulations 1999, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. LDK Security Group Ltd. state that no permit was displayed. As parking permits are issued free of charge, there can be no loss to the landowner.

2. The Notice to Keeper is non-compliant

The Notice to Keeper is dated 13th January 2015 – 73 days after the Parking Charge date of 1st November 2014.

The issue of the Notice to Keeper is therefore late. Consequentially, as a member of the British Parking Association, LDK Security Group Ltd. has contravened their code of practice, after failing to meet the obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of freedoms Act 2012.

I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge is dismissed.

Yours faithfully,

*********

Redx

I would do the following

3) also query the signage as it may not meet the BPA CoP, so query it anyway

4) query the landowner contract, ie:- make them produce the contract that allows them to operate (to popla and to yourself)

always query everything

now in my opinion:-

the 2 points you have queried need expanding on, so seek other appeals that do so and add sections to your own 2 points

also find and use the points 3 and 4 I have raised , withs suitabley more detail than in your last post

so at least 4 points, all with the whys and wherefore as seen in other popla appeals

possibly more legal points to raise , but at least your 2 and my 2 = 4 or more in total

also add a bullet point style menu just before rhe appeal points (a menu the assessor can check easily to see what is in all the blurb below the menu)

this is providing you are not testing the water with few points and little content, as a test case, and are prepared to lose ?

so if you are not testing the waters, add more to the appeal

for example , like in this one

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5178343

and this one https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5166435

Mav62

Many thanks Redx,

I've added the two additional points, as you suggested, expanded on the points I made, and have now submitted my appeal to POPLA.

I wait in anticipation!

Mav62

My POPLA hearing was due on or around 13th April, but I’ve not heard anything as yet. In the meantime, I’ve received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus asking for payment by 28th April. Presumably this is a last-ditch attempt to extort money from me? Can I report them for sending out such a letter, whilst my appeal is still in progress? Or is this normal practice?
Mav62

Edna_Basher

Although it’s probable that the Operator didn’t send any evidence to POPLA, there is still a chance that they did so but did not bother to copy you in.This happened to me a couple of months ago with a POPLA appeal I’d been working on against Smart Parking; fortunately I contacted POPLA a week before the scheduled hearing date and rumbled their little game.

There’s no harm in sending a further e-mail to [EMAIL="appeals@popla.org.uk"]appeals@popla.org.uk[/EMAIL] along the lines of.......

"Dear POPLA Appeals Team

POPLA Verification Code 0123456789

With reference to the above-detailed POPLA appeal and in follow up to your notification that the Operator would send me its evidence prior to my POPLA hearing scheduled to take place on or soon after [Due Date], I write to advise you that I have received no communication from the Operator in this respect.

It is possible that the Operator may have already sent you its evidence and it may simply have been an oversight that it did not also provide me with this. If this is so, then I should be very grateful if you would send me a copy of the Operator’s submission as a matter of urgency.

Alternatively, if the Operator has not provided you with its evidence, please let me know by return. Although I would be very disappointed to learn that the Operator had failed to engage in the arbitration process, if this is indeed the case may I assume that my appeal to POPLA is upheld?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully”

If nothing else, this establishes a written record that you have not received any evidence from the Operator.

Redx

Mav62 wrote: »

My POPLA hearing was due on or around 13th April, but I’ve not heard anything as yet. In the meantime, I’ve received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus asking for payment by 28th April. Presumably this is a last-ditch attempt to extort money from me? Can I report them for sending out such a letter, whilst my appeal is still in progress? Or is this normal practice?
Mav62

report them to the BPA with copies of the DRP paperwork and popla appeal number etc as a code breach, let them sanction DRP and maybe the PPC for not putting the invoice on hold pending the popla outcome

and as above, query the case with popla and copy them in with the DRP letter too, as it could be a breach they need to be aware of

also fill out the government survey before 25 may 2015 with details like this harassment too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5208199