PCN for stopping in yellow box when turning right

lovinituk

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

If you post I think you have to expect some people might not agree with you.

Absolutely, I have no illusions over that.

In this case the OP asked what we thought he could do. I admit my answer was somewhat curt, but it was my honest opinion on the subject. Probably not what the OP expected, as you say.

Coupon-mad

Bantex wrote: »

If it is a council ticket, one persons cost is another group of peoples savings.

If it's a Council ticket then they should not be so quick to issue penalties for borderline issues, then there would be plenty of time and money saved and happier local residents & workers, maybe more prepared to pay up if they really deserve a PCN once in a blue moon!

forgotmyname

EDIT: I didnt see the full picture...

I thought you were turning right, But you actually turned left and failed to clear the box..

HappyMJ

It's sort of explained in the first message. The OP is leaving Chadwell Heath Lane and is wanting to do a right turn into Station Road.

The picture is of the car on High Road between the above roads.

The problem is if a large vehicle came along High Road from Station Road and wanted to turn right into Chadwell Heath Lane and may be prevented from doing so due to the car in the way. Although in my opinion there would be enough space.

Bantex_2

Coupon-mad wrote: »

If it's a Council ticket then they should not be so quick to issue penalties for borderline issues, then there would be plenty of time and money saved and happier local residents & workers, maybe more prepared to pay up if they really deserve a PCN once in a blue moon!

Not sure what you mean, you have either committed the offence or not. People stopped in box junctions can cause chaos and gridlock in busy cities. parts of london used to be even worse than they are now before they used cameras and many people chanced it as there was little chance of getting caught.

forgotmyname

HappyMJ wrote: »

It's sort of explained in the first message. The OP is leaving Chadwell Heath Lane and is wanting to do a right turn into Station Road.

The picture is of the car on High Road between the above roads.

The problem is if a large vehicle came along High Road from Station Road and wanted to turn right into Chadwell Heath Lane and may be prevented from doing so due to the car in the way. Although in my opinion there would be enough space.

The picture is from the rear of the vehicle yes? So they turn left into the right hand lane but got caught in the box yes??

That is the rear of the car isnt it? A Porsche?

Initially i thought the car was coming towards us but it appears to be going the other way.

buglawton

You should have said in the appeal that your car was still moving... slowly

System

buglawton wrote: »

You should have said in the appeal that your car was still moving... slowly

Could be easily refuted by the video evidence

Coupon-mad

I have had another look and this one looks well worth appealing all the way to adjudication:


- IMHO you were exempt, it's a fact the contravention doesn't apply to a driver waiting to turn right

(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person where the box junction is at a junction between two or more roads (but not at a gyratory system or roundabout) and the person—
(a) causes a vehicle to enter the box junction for the purpose of turning right; and
(b) stops the vehicle within the box junction for so long as the vehicle is prevented from completing the right turn—
(i) by oncoming vehicles; or
(ii) by vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn


- you need to see the footage (video) because it's possible the camera has not actually captured the car entering the YBJ at the start of the manoeuvre and it has to show that, not only the car moving then stopping within the YBJ.

- the YBJ looks to be inappropriately wide for the road joining it, so it is catching more cars than perhaps it should. Not all YBJs need special Authority from the DFT but plenty do, so you can ask the Council for any DFT authorisation and measurements/plans for this YBJ. Then compare the measurements - some are way out!

- the YBJ looks to be inappropriately placed because straight ahead is the right turn which causes a bottle-neck which cars coming in from the side road (like you) cannot easily avoid. It's not possible to complete the manoeuvre in one go, to turn left into the YBJ then immediate right if the cars ahead that also want to turn right, stop.

- the Notice fetters your right to see the video footage at a time and place (Council Offices) of your choosing. Never mind the still images - they are no good, you need to see the video and the Regs say you can say, within reason, when/where. Yet the paragraph on the left says you must write in for an appointment to be arranged, ONLY at the One Stop in Ilford! That's not right and cases are won on this point, at adjudication, because the Regs are set out for a reason and are statutory.

- worse, the Notice misinforms you as to the 28 day period. Under the red heading 'DO NOT IGNORE' it says '...28 days beginning with the date this Notice was served'. But that period is the payment period only for parking offences, not moving traffic ones. YBJ PCNs should say '...28 days beginning with the date of the Notice' and should then explain that the period to APPEAL is '...28 days beginning with the date this Notice was served'. i.e. there are really 2 different 28 day periods and this Notice gets it wrong, states only one and it's not correct.

- The Notice misinforms you about the circumstances of the enforcement, as it says an Officer viewed images from a roadside camera 'in real time'. But that's almost certainly not true and such misleading statements are another 'procedural impropriety' by the Council:

http://www2.redbridge.gov.uk/cms/parking_rubbish_and_streets/roads_and_streets/road_and_traffic_safety/unattended_cctv_trial.aspx

Redbridge dig their own hole here so question this, clearly the footage is checked later:
''The cameras simply do not require a camera operator. Any contraventions captured are checked by fully trained officers before a penalty charge notice can be issued.''

See this:

http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/Yellowboxjunctiontickets.htm

I will stick my neck out, this one is typical in that there are more mistakes by the Council here than by the driver. You will win. Anyone want a virtual 'bet' (not real money but I will eat my hat if the adjudicator doesn't agree with one or more of the above, or if - more likely - Redbridge don't cancel before adjudication).

Coupon-mad

Bantex wrote: »

Not sure what you mean, you have either committed the offence or not. People stopped in box junctions can cause chaos and gridlock in busy cities. parts of london used to be even worse than they are now before they used cameras and many people chanced it as there was little chance of getting caught.

Wanna bet? See the above post now I have looked at this Notice properly. The OP will win, this rubbish Notice is pants.

'The contravention did not occur' and 'there has been a procedural impropriety by the Authority'.