German Kitchen recomendations

leveller2911

ryder72 wrote: »

Apart from carcase thickness, factors such as carcase density, level of moisture resistance, type and quality of edging, squareness, numbers of dowels, quality of assembly machinery determine the quality of the end product.

So given the fact that UK manufacturers such as DIY kitchens will use Egger boards for their carcases who do German kitchens use?. What type of edging materials do they use? edging thickness?.

With regards to "Number of dowels"? What type of dowels/fixings do they use? Maxifit ,Minifix,Rondorfix ?. I'm interested to know what components/materials make German kitchen construction so much better than UK manufacturers.

Our German supplier has just invested 11mn Euros in a new edging line to offer laser fused edging on doors and carcases. Such a line doesnt yet exist in the UK and yet a number of German suppliers are already using this technology. Are you saying that all the investment results in nothing by way of improved product?

The improvements in the industry due to Technology has been staggering over the past few years as it has in most industries. Have you got a link you can post Ryder as I'm genuinely interested.

As a point of note, German manufacturers (and I speak for ALL of them) do not price carcases and doors seperately. They offer a unit complete with handle and plinth so there is no real carcase to carcase comparison available.

The fact that you can't make a comparison does smack of smart marketing on their part. Trying to hide the prices for each within an overal price is the same as 2nd hand car dealers including the price of the warranty in the overal price of a car but resisting on telling the buyer the true cost.If the buyer knows the cost of each element they can then weigh whether or not its value for money.

Further, the notion that German carcases are 4-5 times dearer is a myth, probably by British manufacturers content in peddling mediocre product and unable or unwilling to make the investment into appropriate machinery.

DIY kitchens onlines factory looks fine to me with plenty of CNC processing.

Yes German furniture will never compare with the likes of the sheds, Howdens etc. Its way head in quality and specification.

So which hinge/drawer runners/wireworks manufacturers do German Kitchens use if not Blum,Grass,Hettich?.

I have limited knowledge of German kitchens but the ones I have seen were not "light years" ahead of UK kitchens. I'm openminded but it seems that apart from being more flexible with carcases sizes there is little difference but I hope you can show me the differences Ryder.

CKdesigner

OK - CK here!

To be honest I can't be bothered to read every bit of every post, but the general idea I get here from the anti-German brigade is that German kitchens are considerably more expensive than typical English produced kitchens without being better in terms of quality for the extra money.

Let me tell you about a customer I have coming to see me on Saturday afternoon to order her new kitchen from me. I have designed her new kitchen and I have priced it in both our German and English ranges - I'm not going to use any brand names here because its basically irrelevant. The cabinetry from our English supplier will cost our customer £7,400 and from our German supplier £7,900. If it were me I would have the German kitchen because fundamentally I think our handleless German product is a better design than our English product using the 'J' groove door. Yes I also think the German product is constructed slightly better than our English but this is not about quality of production, this is about the design and best look for the customer.

As a kitchen design company we want to be able to design and sell the widest range of quality / value for money kitchens we can. That is why we do 2 German makes of kitchens, a normal mid range English and a beautiful in-frame bespoke range from our workshop in Yorkshire. We do not do anything to compare to the likes of Howdens or Benchmarks for obvious reasons, however if a customer is prepared to invest a bit more money into their new kitchen, then we can supply them with I think a vastly superior one.

I have been a kitchen designer for more than 20 years and a small business owner for the last 14, and as such I see one of my many roles within our business is to source the best quality and value products I can, which will hopefully help us to stand out from the crowd!

CK

Hoffmonkey

I'm interested in getting quotes for a kitchen fit out. Please PM me with contact details if you're interested in quoting.

Thanks

David

getmore4less

I was in a place a few weeks ago and they showed me what they called the bible.

Just about every component from many manufacturers it was very thick.
no messing around with the carcase manufacturers thin brochure offerings this included stuff from loads of places giving much more design choice.

any one know if there is an on-line copy.

leveller2911

getmore4less wrote: »

I was in a place a few weeks ago and they showed me what they called the bible.

Just about every component from many manufacturers it was very thick.
no messing around with the carcase manufacturers thin brochure offerings this included stuff from loads of places giving much more design choice.

any one know if there is an on-line copy.

Never seen the "Bible" but all the main manufacturers have their own Lexicons. The Blum one alone is huge but to be honest 90% of the contents you would never use, let alone all the components that are discontinued.

Furts

[QUOTE=ryder72;67081740

In a perfect world, everyone would have solid wood or plywood carcases. In that world, everyone would have a kitchen with 1-2 units as anything more would be plain unaffordable. It is therefore logical and common sense that a product made from affordable material and suitable for purpose is manufactured and chipboard solves this problem adequately..[/QUOTE]

My curiosity means I may be accused, rightly, of highjacking this post but the construction interests me. I can see a point with solid kitchen carcasses being good, but I wonder if in new builds the moisture levels would be dubious for such units.

The plywood puzzles me for I have never understood why kitchens are not made from it. Someone did once give me an answer, but I have not retained this. Construction WBP plywood is invariably from the Far East and the sheets compare favourably with British made chipboard flooring sheets for price - though quality can be an issue, often. Spruce ply comes cheaper, and I assume this is UK or European, but some dodgy sheets I have rejected were Far Eastern,

So over to ryder72 - why does every kitchen manufacturer use chipboard?

leveller2911

Furts wrote: »

The plywood puzzles me for I have never understood why kitchens are not made from it. Someone did once give me an answer, but I have not retained this. Construction WBP plywood is invariably from the Far East and the sheets compare favourably with British made chipboard flooring sheets for price - though quality can be an issue, often. Spruce ply comes cheaper, and I assume this is UK or European, but some dodgy sheets I have rejected were Far Eastern,

About 4 years ago I made a kitchen entirely out of Finnish Birch ply. It was all lacquered (30% sheen) and looked pretty cool. The end grain looked especially good with the expose layers of ply.

8x4 sheet of 18mm Finnish Birch ply is around £25-00 and you can make a couple of units from a sheet.

Re: Far Eastern ply .Its now the poorest quality I have even seen, it de-laminates and is full of voids. It doesn't reach the old BS standard but just reaches the lesser EN standard , which is surprising.I was offered a whole container load of 18mm WBP far eastern ply for £1 a sheet but it wasn't worth 50p a sheet..:D