Can a NHS dentist just remove me from their list!?

theoretica

JasonBat wrote: »

I might be searching long and hard to no avail if that is the case. It seems dentists are very defensive these days which has already been discussed to some degree. I know what you mean though but don't see why I should have to walk on tenterhooks. Presumably one should be able to have an open conversation with your dentist without the fear of retribution?



I think you are making more drama of this than was intended. In any event, do you not see the point I was making following on from Apollonia's comments? It goes well beyond simply being dropped from the practice. Where do you think the most prejudice lies in the two scenarios?

That is exactly my point - from your earlier posts this whole affair seemed to come from things not being taken as you intended. The way to stop this is being very careful how you express yourself - call it 'walking on tenterhooks' if you want.

welshdent

You are damn right we are defensive sadly We are more likely to be sued here than anywhere else in the world bar I believe israel. I may be wrong on that but we most certainly do face a ridiculous amount of potential challenges and honestly, most are just utterly ridiculous. I have had someone suing me for the last 4 years. They claim I severed their facial nerve by numbing their tooth up to dress it after having pain pain. This person was not a patient in the practice but begged the practice manager to come in as their own dentist would not see them (because as it turned out, they had complained about their own dentist ). It is physically impossible to sever the facial nerve with a local anaesthetic needle from the opposite side of the jaw. That doesn't stop them dragging it out for 4 years and rejecting an independent opinion on it. ... oh and no actual evidence of facial nerve damage or lasting problems. Nothing. Just an allegation. Now there is nothing to stop them taking that to the GDC too further dragging out my trauma, costing thousands to the profession as a whole (because the case HAS to be fully investigated even if it is ludicrous).
I know of a case that went to the GDC where a former wife of a dentist took their ex husband to the GDC because he was found to use a swingers website.

JasonBat

theoretica wrote: »

That is exactly my point - from your earlier posts this whole affair seemed to come from things not being taken as you intended. The way to stop this is being very careful how you express yourself - call it 'walking on tenterhooks' if you want.

Fair comment.

To perhaps clarify, what happened here, albeit through my eyes, is that I asked my dentist for another copy of the x-ray after he said there was an abnormality and asked him to put that in writing (bad move I know). I think he even said he would hold back any further work in that area until any foreign body is removed. I should have known he could have received correspondence from my consultant at that stage or shortly thereafter. Perhaps in hindsight I should not have put him in that compromising position but all I really wanted, as already mentioned, was some acknowledgement and for people to act more diligently.

Did I mention he then wrote there was absolutely nothing showing up after saying there was whilst leaving a copy of an x-ray at reception that appeared to be different albeit slightly?

I then queried this only to be told I had lost faith in his ability (putting words into my mouth and jumping the gun a tad) and he would not see me any more.

So, bottom line is I don't trust any of them at the moment and feel I may even be jumping from the frying pan into the fire by seeing a dentist who is not as up to speed as my past dentist who had seen me many times over this and other issues.

JasonBat

welshdent wrote: »

You are damn right we are defensive sadly We are more likely to be sued here than anywhere else in the world bar I believe israel. I may be wrong on that but we most certainly do face a ridiculous amount of potential challenges and honestly, most are just utterly ridiculous. I have had someone suing me for the last 4 years. They claim I severed their facial nerve by numbing their tooth up to dress it after having pain pain. This person was not a patient in the practice but begged the practice manager to come in as their own dentist would not see them (because as it turned out, they had complained about their own dentist ). It is physically impossible to sever the facial nerve with a local anaesthetic needle from the opposite side of the jaw. That doesn't stop them dragging it out for 4 years and rejecting an independent opinion on it. ... oh and no actual evidence of facial nerve damage or lasting problems. Nothing. Just an allegation. Now there is nothing to stop them taking that to the GDC too further dragging out my trauma, costing thousands to the profession as a whole (because the case HAS to be fully investigated even if it is ludicrous).
I know of a case that went to the GDC where a former wife of a dentist took their ex husband to the GDC because he was found to use a swingers website.

Wowser. That does seem a bit harsh. I can understand why you take the view you do now.

The swingers thing sounds ridiculous. How does one justify that? Surely the GDC aren't going to make a case for that? Sure you have all the facts and things haven't been distorted via a rumour ripple?

Dentists should not be treating everyone like a psycho who has just escaped Broadmoor though.

justme111

JasonBat wrote: »

Wowser. That does seem a bit harsh. I can understand why you take the view you do now.

The swingers thing sounds ridiculous. How does one justify that? Surely the GDC aren't going to make a case for that? Sure you have all the facts and things haven't been distorted via a rumour ripple?

Dentists should not be treating everyone like a psycho who has just escaped Broadmoor though.

They should not. And children in Africa should not die. But unfortunately it is the way it is. If DDU advised him to staye a relationship breakdown he would have no option but to do it
NHS system has a lot of holes. I have mot read your original post and all this thread but in any case I can state that invariably it is the system that is bad , not a professional at the frontline , be it consultant or general dentist. So please do not get angry with them.
Re swingers site - it could be easily interpreted as bringi.g profession in disrepute .
If I were you I would search for consultant who specialises on facial pain , find out how you can be referred to them and travel if needed.
to another part of the country to see them.
It is a very complex area and dare I say ypur aspiration of getting proper treatment "round the corner" is not realistic. In pursuing mot realistic objectives you have caused grief to yourself and to a couple of dentists and you will cause more of it if you continue in your present modus operandi.

Toothsmith

theoretica wrote: »

What do you want out of this? That you might reasonably get! A complaint can not sort out your condition, nor will it create a dentist just round the corner from you who likes challenging problems and has the time to spend on them.

At most all I can think of that you might get is an apology letter or the dentist being told to write more polite letters next time.

Jason - this is the $64000 question for you.

What do you want?

I take it you're top priority on your wish-list is to be pain free?

From the bits we know of your case, this is not going to be easy - and it's possible that this may never happen.

One thing is certain though. The dentist and the consultant(s) aren't in any sort of conspiracy to keep anything from you.

If something of significance had shown up on a radiograph, it is in no-one's interest to cover that up. No-one has made a mistake putting your teeth back in after the accident - it's a standard thing to do, although it often doesn't work. And no-one has made a mistake in taking out those teeth even if it was very hard, and bits might or might not have been left behind. These things happen.

So there is no-one to protect. And there is certainly nothing for anyone to gain by keeping you in pain.

The problem is - as you seem to have been told - that going into your jawbone and drilling around for small/tiny fragments of debris will do an awful lot of damage to your bone, with the high possibility of not ahieving anything, and a reasonable possibility of making things worse.

Now - I don't know how you feel the consultant has misled you, or backtracked on what he's said before - but he obviously doesn't want to risk doing you more harm than good. He's just probably not put it very well. No 'complaint' is going to change his mind - and would you really want to force him to do something that he didn't want to do? Or would you want to stop him helping other people on a day-by-day basis just because he can;t help you?

As for the dentist, I can't understand what is happening there - but neither do I think we have the full story reported here.

If I'd taken a picture of something that I felt would help a patient who had been in chronic pain for many years - then I would be happy to pass it on and take the credit and glory for being the person who found the key! The fact that they are being so defensive - especially when it's just an x-ray and they're not going to be providing any treatment anyway is quite baffling. I can only put it down to something about your interactions with them rubbing them up the wrong way.

To find someone to help you, you will probably need to look around a bit. X-rays are very basic things, and seeing another dentist would get another one taken that will show just the same things as this elusive one.

I would look for dentists who have an interest in dealing with chronic pain - there are some out there. I would also look around dentists who advertise as treating jaw problems.

I would email the dentists with a brief, but accurate account of your problems and treatment so far (without mentioning complaints agaist former dentists - that will get red lights flashing!) and see what responses you get.

There will be people out there who can spend more time with you, and thoroughly go through the steps to find out what might be happening to you.

You might be lucky, and find someone who can. But the possibility certainly exists that you might not. There is certainly no magic wand, and getting frustrated and firing out complaints like a blunderbuss is an unproductive waste of your time.

JasonBat

justme111 wrote: »

They should not. And children in Africa should not die. But unfortunately it is the way it is. If DDU advised him to staye a relationship breakdown he would have no option but to do it
NHS system has a lot of holes. I have mot read your original post and all this thread but in any case I can state that invariably it is the system that is bad , not a professional at the frontline , be it consultant or general dentist. So please do not get angry with them.
Re swingers site - it could be easily interpreted as bringi.g profession in disrepute .
If I were you I would search for consultant who specialises on facial pain , find out how you can be referred to them and travel if needed.
to another part of the country to see them.
It is a very complex area and dare I say ypur aspiration of getting proper treatment "round the corner" is not realistic. In pursuing mot realistic objectives you have caused grief to yourself and to a couple of dentists and you will cause more of it if you continue in your present modus operandi.

Thanks justme111. Indeed food for thought.

JasonBat

Toothsmith wrote: »

Jason - this is the $64000 question for you.

What do you want?

I take it you're top priority on your wish-list is to be pain free?

From the bits we know of your case, this is not going to be easy - and it's possible that this may never happen.

One thing is certain though. The dentist and the consultant(s) aren't in any sort of conspiracy to keep anything from you.

If something of significance had shown up on a radiograph, it is in no-one's interest to cover that up. No-one has made a mistake putting your teeth back in after the accident - it's a standard thing to do, although it often doesn't work. And no-one has made a mistake in taking out those teeth even if it was very hard, and bits might or might not have been left behind. These things happen.

So there is no-one to protect. And there is certainly nothing for anyone to gain by keeping you in pain.

The problem is - as you seem to have been told - that going into your jawbone and drilling around for small/tiny fragments of debris will do an awful lot of damage to your bone, with the high possibility of not achieving anything, and a reasonable possibility of making things worse.

Now - I don't know how you feel the consultant has misled you, or backtracked on what he's said before - but he obviously doesn't want to risk doing you more harm than good. He's just probably not put it very well. No 'complaint' is going to change his mind - and would you really want to force him to do something that he didn't want to do? Or would you want to stop him helping other people on a day-by-day basis just because he can;t help you?

As for the dentist, I can't understand what is happening there - but neither do I think we have the full story reported here.

If I'd taken a picture of something that I felt would help a patient who had been in chronic pain for many years - then I would be happy to pass it on and take the credit and glory for being the person who found the key! The fact that they are being so defensive - especially when it's just an x-ray and they're not going to be providing any treatment anyway is quite baffling. I can only put it down to something about your interactions with them rubbing them up the wrong way.

To find someone to help you, you will probably need to look around a bit. X-rays are very basic things, and seeing another dentist would get another one taken that will show just the same things as this elusive one.

I would look for dentists who have an interest in dealing with chronic pain - there are some out there. I would also look around dentists who advertise as treating jaw problems.

I would email the dentists with a brief, but accurate account of your problems and treatment so far (without mentioning complaints agaist former dentists - that will get red lights flashing!) and see what responses you get.

There will be people out there who can spend more time with you, and thoroughly go through the steps to find out what might be happening to you.

You might be lucky, and find someone who can. But the possibility certainly exists that you might not. There is certainly no magic wand, and getting frustrated and firing out complaints like a blunderbuss is an unproductive waste of your time.

Hi Toothsmith,

Not sure if you read my post of today at 7:03 PM before posting that as it does express my view.

I think what I want is partly in action. Luckily I saw a neurologist not too long ago who referred me to a specialist facial pain clinic in London to see someone who actually trained the oral surgery consultant I see (I'm at a loss at why my oral surgery consultant never knew of this or took it upon himself to refer me whilst conceding he was a bit stumped).

The last thing I want, Toothsmith old chap, is for me to be put through unnecessary suffering whilst the clinicians in question are missing basic steps and adopting a dismissive approach (which is already evidenced) and in the process having my dentist(s) give me a super hard time.

This is where I'm heading as soon as the consultant manages to fill in the referral properly (the initial one was rejected):

http://www.uclh.nhs.uk/OurServices/OurHospitals/EDH/Pages/Home.aspx

I can assure you the facts are as accurate as I see them.

JasonBat

Just wondering if this might also be a possibility:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracked_tooth_syndrome

Toothsmith

JasonBat wrote: »

Just wondering if this might also be a possibility:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracked_tooth_syndrome

It's certainly a possibility.