Small Claims Court - Currys Electrical?

Apollonia

NewlySingle wrote: »

She only had access to the manual (which described the risks of burning to pets and small children) after unpacking and installation.

On Saturday 18th October 2014 I followed the instructions on the manual prior to first use and heated the oven up.

I just looked at the manual (available on Zanussi website) and would like to quote two parts. I have used bold font to highlight that the manual says CAN BE used by children over 8 etc.

Children and vulnerable people safety
WARNING!
Risk of suffocation, injury or permanent disability.
• This appliance can be used by children aged from 8 years and
above and persons with reduced physical, sensory or mental
capabilities or lack of experience and knowledge if they have
been given supervision or instruction concerning use of the
appliance in a safe way and understand the hazards involved.
• Do not let children play with the appliance.
• Keep all packaging away from children.
• Keep children and pets away from the appliance when it
operates or when it cools down. Accessible parts are hot.
• Cleaning and user maintenance shall not be made by children
without supervision.

I would be very surprised if any cooker manufacturer doesn't have identical warnings in all manuals for any cooker.


So, the pre-heating before first use section which you say you read. Again I used bold font for the relevant info:

Preheating
Preheat the empty appliance to burn off the
remaining grease.
Preheat the two ovens. Heat up one
oven at a time.
1. Set the maximum temperature.
2. Let the appliance operate for 1 hour.
Accessories can become hotter than usual. The
appliance can emit an odour and smoke. This is
normal. Make sure that the airflow is sufficient.

Accessories can become hotter than usual. So in normal use, the oven won't get as hot as it does in the initial pre-use heat at maximum for an hour.
My oven is capable of a maximum temp of 275C, I've never needed to cook anything at more than 230C. I would suggest trying the oven at a more normal cooking temp and see how the door is then.

NewlySingle

wealdroam: I don't think for an instant they were "just expressing sympathy with my mother". Our own oven gets hot but the exterior door doesn't get hot enough to cause a serious burn, if I had gone to Currys it would not have occurred to me that you could still even buy a product that would!

I meant no offense, Mum isn't vulnerable because she's in her 60's she's vulnerable because she's at risk of falls (which could happen at any age). Naturally (as any Daughter would be) am disgusted at Currys uncaring attitude to mum but I would be equally disgusted if someone with young children or "furry family members" had been put in a similar situation.

Appollina - thank you but as I mentioned earlier mum doesn't have access to the internet, she didn't have access to that information until after the cooker was purchased and she got the manual.

The fact that mum is not internet savvy and on a limited budget just makes it even worse - I'm trying to help her by seeking advice, as the situation she's been put in is neither fair nor just. this situation is causing mum sleepless nights and she can't use the cooker so can't cook proper food for herself.

The goods aren't suitable for mum, the engineer from Zanussi has already been and heated the cooker to normal cooking temps, it's hot enough to burn her on the exterior

I once owned a jewellery shop and numerous people would buy jewellery. Vary rarely someone would have a reaction to a particular metal and it would cause a rash (some people are allergic to silver some to gold it was all individual). I exchanged or refunded those people as the goods clearly weren't suitable for them - it was good business sense and I felt it fulfilled my duty of care as a responsible retailer (it also reduced or eliminated risk in todays no-win no-fee claim culture)

This cooker has already burnt mum, the risk of more serious injury is quite likely.

Currys have already reneged on their initial offer to exchange the cooker for a safer one - and seem to be hiding behind "buyer beware".

Surely the trading laws were designed so that if someone purchased goods in good faith, that turn out to be unsafe for them to use the retailer has a duty of care to make good?

Mum can work a cooker and doesn't need special training - supervision every time she uses it or additional equipment to make it safe shouldn't be necessary. We're only asking Currys to do what a responsible and decent retailer would do, look after their customers health and safety by supplying an alternative cooker that's safer for mum to use.

MSE is a champion of consumer rights - I came here as I hoped that someone would have ideas as to which the best way to get mums money back or get Curry's to supply a safer cooker.

Citizens Advice Consumer Helpline have given us a reference number and passed the case to Trading Standards but I don't know how long a case through them might take - in the interim mum is left with a disconnected cooker and is over £500 out of pocket.

k3lvc

NewlySingle wrote: »

MSE is a champion of consumer rights - I came here as I hoped that someone would have ideas as to which the best way to get mums money back or get Curry's to supply a safer cooker.

Consumer rights are exactly that - they are detailed and (generally) fair for a reason and that's to avoid retailers absorbing unnecessary costs for unreasonably returned items

Your option for a safer cooker is easy - do the research, find a cool touch one within budget and go and buy it. Presumably in order to do that you'll have to take a hit on selling the old one in which case the protector suggested earlier is likely to be a far cheaper option

As an aside you'll get far further with any action/furtehr discussions if you remove the emotion from your correspondence and deal in facts

tomtontom

Trading Standards won't be interested - they very rarely take on individual cases, and they certainly do not have the resources to pursue a case where the retailer has acted lawfully.

The issue you have is that your mother has a specific need but did not inform the retailer of that prior to purchase. Had she done so, she would have had rights. As she did not she can only ask for a goodwill gesture, and as discovered Currys rarely do goodwill.

Apollonia

I have two more questions - did the engineer say what the temperature of the exterior of the door was?

At the end of the manual (pages 17 & 18) it describes how to clean the door glass. The instructions say that the glass panels are removable for cleaning. Do both doors have two sheets of glass? The Currys website describes the doors as double glazed, is it possible that there is one layer missing?

wealdroam

NewlySingle wrote: »

Citizens Advice Consumer Helpline have given us a reference number and passed the case to Trading Standards but I don't know how long a case through them might take - in the interim mum is left with a disconnected cooker and is over £500 out of pocket.

Trading Standards departments tend not to act on individual complaints.

I would suggest that if that was the only idea that CAB came up with, then they too do not think that you have much chance of winning a court case... should it come to that.

How did your mother pay? By credit card or some other form of credit perhaps?
If so, then the credit provider is equally responsible for performance of the contract.
You might like to read MSE's Section 75 article for more details on that, but of course the credit provider may well ask Currys for their version of events.

Another option may be to send a letter before action.
That may kick Currys into offering some goodwill, but it may not.
Read this CAB webpage for more detail about an LBA, but if it did get as far as court, then I fear you will struggle now that Currys have a report from the manufacturer saying the thing is not faulty.

lincroft1710

NewlySingle wrote: »

Citizens Advice Consumer Helpline have given us a reference number and passed the case to Trading Standards but I don't know how long a case through them might take - in the interim mum is left with a disconnected cooker and is over £500 out of pocket.

I can't see TS getting involved, Currys haven't infringed any laws or consumer rights in selling your mother a cooker or refusing to exchange it as it is not faulty.

NewlySingle

Apollonia wrote: »

I have two more questions - did the engineer say what the temperature of the exterior of the door was?

At the end of the manual (pages 17 & 18) it describes how to clean the door glass. The instructions say that the glass panels are removable for cleaning. Do both doors have two sheets of glass? The Currys website describes the doors as double glazed, is it possible that there is one layer missing?

Don't know I'd have to ask mum if the engineer gave her a reading- I believe it was in the 80's or 90's when mum used an exterior thermometer. Will check on the door.

wealdroam wrote: »

Trading Standards departments tend not to act on individual complaints.

I would suggest that if that was the only idea that CAB came up with, then they too do not think that you have much chance of winning a court case... should it come to that.

How did your mother pay? By credit card or some other form of credit perhaps?
If so, then the credit provider is equally responsible for performance of the contract.
You might like to read MSE's Section 75 article for more details on that.

Another option may be to send a letter before action.
That may kick Currys into action.

Read this CAB webpage for more detail about an LBA, but if it did get as far as court, then I fear you will struggle now that Currys have a report from the manufacturer saying the thing is not faulty.

The CAB conversation was pretty brief, mum went separately to the "bricks and mortar" store and they said their were a number of avenues to pursue (hopefully I can take an afternoon off and go with her again to get all the details). The phone folks passed the info to TS as it was their procedure for safety issues...

I'll find our from mum how she paid, I'm not sure she has a credit card but thanks for the suggestion to investigate along with the letter before action and read the CAB webpage. Thank you! :A

lincroft1710 wrote: »

I can't see TS getting involved, Currys haven't infringed any laws or consumer rights in selling your mother a cooker or refusing to exchange it as it is not faulty.

Hopefully will find out more from that route in the next few days, I don't know enough to guess what approach they might take. If not then the solicitor that provides advice for my employer, has offered to help mum out with the best route to take.

Thank you all so much:A
Off to do lots of research xxxx

Sooler

Relevant info, allowed temperatures, testing and more is here
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/buying-advice/cooking-products/2640-bsi-oven-temperatures.html

NewlySingle

Thank you that is really useful info as mums kitchen is pretty cold.