UKCPS County Court Form - We are going to pay - advice please

butchx5

Hi
My 18 year old son has received a County Court Form from UKCPS for parking in a disabled bay in our local shopping centre (I know he shouldn't have BUT that's another story). We checked online and followed what now I understand to be the wrong way forward and just ignored the ticket and following letters until he has now received the Court Form.

I have looked everywhere to try and work out a way forward and having found this thread : http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=76790&st=180 which is as similar to our situation as I can find and after reading it all the way through have decided there is no way my 18 year old son could cope with a court case NOR risk the chance of a CCJ affecting his life there after SO my next question is:

Do you just pay off the full amount of £175 and end things OR do we attempt to send a lesser amount in 'Full and Final Payment' with some wording along the lines of us considering £175 too high as there have been no losses incurred by UKCPS and by making this payment we are not accepting the charges but make the payment as a 'Show of Goodwill'.

Can anyone comment on our decision please.

Thanks

bargepole

It's no good just sending a cheque for a lesser amount, unless they have agreed to it.


You could phone them and try to negotiate a lower figure, pointing out that it will cost them more money (which they won't be able to recover) if it goes to a hearing.


Or, you could do some more research, and defend the claim. These are small claims cases, with just the parties and a Judge sat round a table. No wigs, gowns or jury. A bit like a job interview, it would be a worthwhile life experience for your son.

patman99

DO NOT PAY.

Your son needs to realize that on private land, such bays have no legal existence.

He needs to send back to the Court an evidence pack (this is what will form his defence). Before he creates this, he really needs to post for help on Pepipoo as they are good at this sort of thing.

With a good defense he will have a field-day in Court (he MUST turn up) and should walk out with a few quid in his pocket when the Judge dismisses UKCPS's claim and awards him costs.

Coupon-mad

UKCPS County Court Form - We are going to pay - advice please

No you are not, don't be daft. Why on earth would anyone pay this early on without a little, non-scary, written fight?

Is it that you think you'd have to pay more if you lose in small claims (answer= no)

Is it that you think you can't pay it later on if between a rock and a hard place, just before a hearing? (answer = wrong, yes you still could, so why pay NOW?!)

Is it that you think you'll get a CCJ (answer = no, not if you defend with our help, then even if you lose there's no CCJ if you paid up).

Is it that you think it will affect your credit rating? (answer = no...same as above...doesn't happen as long as you don't ignore it).

Is it that you think UKCPS will surely win? (answer = no, look at the cases won as linked in post #3 of the newbies thread). I can think of three v UKCPS this year!

Jangofett's on pepipoo is the only one I recall a poster losing! And he didn't defend it very well if I recall correctly & had a bad Judge, I remember it from pepipoo.

And you have more chance now, than he did then, to avoid a hearing. Because now you can ask the Court to stay (adjourn) the case for POPLA or the outcome in Spring 2015, of the Court of appeal ParkingEye v Beavis).

Here you go, start reading and forget jangofett's wasted/rare failure of an effort:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64350600&postcount=5

We'll help. I have every confidence and if you end up between that rock and a hard place just before a hearing in a few months then you can - if you still really want to - then just pay up then. NOT NOW!

bazster

Among all the usual stuff you need to study the signage carefully to see what it offers for your defence. UKCPS signage has recently been described by a judge as "gibberish", but more specifically UKCPS signs often specify the terms under which Blue Badge holders may park in disabled bays whilst failing to forbid other motorists from parking in them!

butchx5

Thanks everyone.

I also posted on pepipoo as well and I must say the response here has been so much more supportive - Thank you :-)

I have a meeting to goto today (I run a local support group for the genetic disorder myself and the kids have) so I will regroup when I get back, chat with my son and probably be back on here for some more support/help.

I will also get a photo of the UKCPS sign (well the one that is there now - which I guess/assume is the same one as was there back in May).

I do have one question which has a bearing on how we go forward - well certainly if we go as far as going to court -

Does this sort of court claim count as something you to have to declare anywhere (insurance, back account , anywhere that asks about court cases, convictions, etc) IF you lose - even if you pay up and don't accrue a CCJ?

Thanks for your help so far xx

bazster

butchx5 wrote: »

Does this sort of court claim count as something you to have to declare anywhere (insurance, back account , anywhere that asks about court cases, convictions, etc) IF you lose - even if you pay up and don't accrue a CCJ?

1. The mere fact that the claim has been brought counts for nothing.

2. Should you lose, you then have 28 days to pay. If you do so then the record is clear and that's that.

3. If you don't pay then there will be a CCJ registered. You wouldn't need to declare it as such, anyone who accesses your credit rating will find out about it that way.

Coupon-mad

Nope there is no trace of it, as bazster says, this isn't a fine, isn't a debt. No effect at all on credit rating and no need to 'declare it'. You wouldn't declare not paying a Nigerian phishing emailer would you, the only difference here is that Stephen Hall of UKCPS uses small claims to do his money-grabbing and thinks he's Perry Mason. We like to put him right on that front!

Which car park please, we might have photos as we've helped with other UKCPS defences in those winning cases this Summer. I have some photos I can check through and see if it's 'your' car park (no need to keep quiet on this thread, makes no odds if UKPCS see this).

By the way does the driver have a genetic condition which has a substantial effect on his daily life? If so then he meets the definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010 anyway and could lawfully use that disabled bay provision (Blue Badge or not). It's another defence point, can be hard to argue but it's a valid one.

Oh, and who has the court claim, YOU as keeper? And you weren't the driver? Good. Did you keep the Notice to Keeper (first letter)? Show it to us, both sides please! Just cover your name/address and car reg but show ALL other details.

gertysingh

...ahh now scamming the Nigerian scammers....that's another thing that needs time!

Umkomaas

gertysingh wrote: »

...ahh now scamming the Nigerian scammers....that's another thing that needs time!

If you want a good read on baiting Nigerian scammers, have a read here. Shiver Metimbers is a folk hero!

http://www.419eater.com/html/letters.htm

Many hours of enjoyment, bringing tears of laughter to my eyes!

4consumerrights

butchx5 wrote: »

Hi

I have looked everywhere to try and work out a way forward and having found this thread : http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=76790&st=180 which is as similar to our situation as I can find and after reading it all the way through have decided there is no way my 18 year old son could cope with a court case NOR risk the chance of a CCJ affecting his life there after SO my next question is:

Do you just pay off the full amount of £175 and end things OR do we attempt to send a lesser amount in 'Full and Final Payment' with some wording along the lines of us considering £175 too high as there have been no losses incurred by UKCPS and by making this payment we are not accepting the charges but make the payment as a 'Show of Goodwill'.

Can anyone comment on our decision please.

Thanks

It would appear that you are making the decision for your son....

1. Acknowledge the claim stating you will defend in full.
You will need to do this within 14 days of service of court papers. This then extends the time to 28 days total from service to submit your initial defence.

Please do this regardless of if you want to settle or not - you do not want to leave anything open to chance.

2. Make a formal complaint to the landowner regarding their car parking mis management firm and insist that they drop the claim against your son as he was a bone fide customer and is covered by the Equality Act (i due to inherited genetical condition?)

Point out that the blue badge scheme is not valid on private land and that UKCPS car parking attendants' have no legal rights to inspect any vehicles for the display of same.


3. As CM says we can help with defences for you - please do some reading first.

If you feel that your son cannot cope with a hearing then enter into correspondence (not by phone) offering a "without prejudice save costs" offer to settle.

Please note that this can be done in conjunction with the defence and you can always settle at any time up to the hearing.

As others have said even if you lose the case - there will be no record of a CCJ if you pay within 28 days.