Land registry and boundary dispute

Land_Registry

killerkev wrote: »

Thank you for your post I can't agree more 8cm is such a small amount and of no monetary value. If it was not happening to to my parents I would properly have said just give them what they want as some on here suggest.
Even thought it seem clear to me that under Adverse Possession the low level fence should not be moved as it has been so long established.
So do I give in or call their bluff ???? The 64 million dollar question!!

We can all offer a view but only you and your parents can make that call and nobody knows what the neighbours might do next, except them.

Genuine experience of how such matters can be resolved, such Pricivius's example, will always help and offer some reassurance (or not) depending on which side of the fence you are on.

But you will always come back to the two sides here as they are different in every case, the lie of the ground is unique to them and of course the understanding, belief and 'value' is also unique to them so it may not be a 64 million dollar question re the bluff as it may not be a bluff but more a case of what is maintaining the current boundary feature worth to your parents?

Three things to add to your equation based on having seen and read many examples of such disputes over the years

1. a solicitor's letter setting out their legal view and your parent's view can bring such matters to a close - the only caveat is that a solicitor's letter is yet another example of information which may or may not be accepted by either side

2. a dispute between neighbours should be revealed as and when either property is put up For Sale - this is quite a modern requirement and can act as a degree of leverage depending on the circumstances and finally

3. Boundaries can be the 'battleground' for disputes between neighbours re other issues such as parking, obstructed access, damage to property, noise, bonfires when the washing is out and so on as they are the obvious thing that all neighbours have in common - I am not suggesting that this is the case here for one minute but sometimes focusing on how such a dispute has arisen (if something other than the boundary itself) can help unravel the boundary issue as well

DRP

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Gawd! 6 years of hassle and having to pay 18% of the costs when the evidence of eyes (ie the neighbours eyes) should have told them the facts. Crikey!

It does tend to confirm my view that some people derive "life blood" from fighting for the sake of it (ie that neighbour). Unless there was something wrong with them? Was the neighbour ill in any way or just not very bright that they started that - or was it they are the sort of person who gets "life blood" from it (ie reason to live)?

Congratulations that the right person won in the end - ie your parents.

moneyistooshorttomention, does this story make you wary of commencing down the legal/official routes in your own dispute?

Sometimes for the sake of your finances and well-being, it makes sense just to let things go.... (especially as it doesn't sound like you have the same level of documentary or witness evidence described by Pricivius).

Secondly what do you actually stand to lose? a few inches/feet of space?

AdrianC

DRP wrote: »

moneyistooshorttomention, does this story make you wary of commencing down the legal/official routes in your own dispute?

Glad I'm not the only one spotting the parallels...

moneyistooshorttomention

I don't intend to let the neighbour get me into a Court Room. She would probably enjoy every minute (as she seems to be one of these "feed on things like this as lifeblood" type people)....but I refuse to let her drag me into that.

I've worked out my "getting it resolved once and for all" route and Court doesn't figure in it...now "Neighbourhood Disputes" come a sale if she doesn't start "getting moral" or told to "behave herself" by the Land Registry in effect on the other hand;)

I anticipate that this should be able to be dealt with just by the LR route, ie get her application for adverse possession refused and then ensure my Title is corrected to reflect what I actually own (ie that blimmin' error based on those "back of envelope" deed plans on the other hand).

Davesnave

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I don't intend to let the neighbour get me into a Court Room. She would probably enjoy every minute (as she seems to be one of these "feed on things like this as lifeblood" type people)....but I refuse to let her drag me into that.

I've worked out my "getting it resolved once and for all" route and Court doesn't figure in it...now "Neighbourhood Disputes" come a sale if she doesn't start "getting moral" or told to "behave herself" by the Land Registry in effect on the other hand;)

I anticipate that this should be able to be dealt with just by the LR route, ie get her application for adverse possession refused and then ensure my Title is corrected to reflect what I actually own (ie that blimmin' error based on those "back of envelope" deed plans on the other hand).

If there is an unresolved dispute over registered land, and the LR doesn't consider one claim groundless, the matter will be referred to the to the Land Registration Division, which is like a court. The judges who decide the matter are specialists.

This was formerly the service provided by the Adjudicator to HM Land Registry.

Our family prepared a case for the Adjudicator to hear. It was damned expensive, but worthwhile, because although the area concerned was only a few m2, it was vital to the building of a house. At the last minute, the other party withdrew their totally fabricated claim to the land.

The Land Registry seems confident that it can weed out groundless claims. My not-too-distant experience suggests otherwise!

I'm sure you have seen this page already, but it costs nothing to include the link.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/tribunals/land-registration

moneyistooshorttomention

Thank you Dave.

Link saved.

Every road travelled down research-wise indicates she will fail on her claim for AP and I'm rather surprised she hasn't realised it. However, don't look gift horse in mouth and just be grateful she has shot herself in the foot several times already and keep fingers crossed for the one remaining way I anticipate she might do so.

LR Rep's thoughts re there often being other things behind boundary disputes certainly gave food for thought and I think he/she may well be right in many cases. I could list off exactly what is behind Naughty Neighbours having a go quite easily, but have had advice from friends here to "keep my mouth firmly shut" about that and I understand their reasoning and wont go into that.

It was reassuring to see LR Rep also commenting that many people think twice about Neighbourhood Disputes on their house these days. I had thought so and don't have to take it into account myself, as my house isn't likely to be sold until I die (presumably some years away still in my case?) and one environmental charity about to be thoroughly delighted at how much they will receive come the time anyway, as its going to be a very large bequest by their standards (ie rather than it going to relatives or the like). Neis iawn.

killerkev

A quick update, I have taken a little bit of free legal advice, It would seem that the view is we would have a strong case. But if the other side want to fight could get costly and very time consuming.
I think the course of action I will take is to employ a solicitor to draft up a letter based on the fact the present boundery has been in place for so long, the land maintained by my parents and no objection has been raised by previous occupants and see what answer I get I get!

Mojisola

killerkev wrote: »

I think the course of action I will take is to employ a solicitor to draft up a letter based on the fact the present boundery has been in place for so long, the land maintained by my parents and no objection has been raised by previous occupants and see what answer I get I get!

I would stick with the first two points - don't imply that your parents have been maintaining the land with the permission of the owners of the neighbouring property because permission can be withdrawn by the current owners.

Norman_Castle

Every road travelled down research-wise indicates she will fail on her claim for AP and I'm rather surprised she hasn't realised it.

Adverse possession applies to your parents as they have possessed the land for over 40 years. The neighbor has no claim for adverse possession.
The neighbor needs to prove both that the boundary was initially wrong and that boundaries at the time were defined at an accuracy of greater than 8cm and then that your claim of adverse possession, for land that has been fenced and accepted as owned by your parents for 40+ years, is invalid.

princeofpounds

I would stick with the first two points - don't imply that your parents have been maintaining the land with the permission of the owners of the neighbouring property because permission can be withdrawn by the current owners.

Indeed. And it should be phrased stating that the fence IS the boundary, but that even if it weren't you would have adverse possession. You must not weaken any of your claims.