Alternator failed twice within 2 years... advice please

richardc1983

wealdroam wrote: »

Oh, I'm not saying your problem is due to fair wear and tear, just that now you have told us that the failure of the alternator is due to overloading.

The load on an alternator is supplied by things external to the alternator, isn't it? If an excessive load is applied, then it could become debatable whether the alternator or the load are to blame.

I am merely planting the thought that you need to be careful about how you describe the cause of the problem.



Yes it should last longer than that, but if it has been misused then the seller cannot be expected to provide a remedy.

The alternator has not been misused, don't know how it could be its in the engine what am I going to do to misuse it other than drive the car?

The garage has wrote back saying the 6.year period does not mean you get a six year warranty which I've never said. They don't seem to have taken any of the facts from my letter which is pretty much word for word in my first post. They say that no refund can be given and that they told me that the alternator can be sent back to them and they will send it off for testing also and then they may be in a position to review the matter.

Again not acceptable I no longer have the alternator or space to store anything that was leaking oil all over the place. They had their opportunity to put it right and failed I had to take it elsewhere who have already sent it off for testing. As said I am now awaiting a letter from my garage to confirm results of this independent testing. It's upto me to prove the alternator was at fault not them. I have already proven this although I am perhaps not coming across like that in my messages on here. The alternator was faulty and had overheated, there is no other way to say precisely what failed on it.

zax47

The alternator was "leaking oil all over the place"? What was oil doing in it?

sheramber

They quoted me £293+Vat for a new alternator fitted non genuine or £468 for OEM

So the alternator fitted for £350 was a non genuine part. It failed due to overloading.

So perhaps it was not sufficient for the job rather than being faulty.

richardc1983

zax47 wrote: »

The alternator was "leaking oil all over the place"? What was oil doing in it?

There is a vacuum pump pump built into the alternator on an Astra H for the brake servo assistance on the brakes and the boost/turbo control. So this is lubricated with oil.

richardc1983

sheramber wrote: »

They quoted me £293+Vat for a new alternator fitted non genuine or £468 for OEM

So the alternator fitted for £350 was a non genuine part. It failed due to overloading.

So perhaps it was not sufficient for the job rather than being faulty.

Yes non genuine part and yes my reputable garage has said the same thing that it might not have been up to the job. But the garage denies this of course saying that they have fitted many of these.

This is the letter they have sent me, my original letter is pretty much what is in the original post but edited to remove names and personal information etc.



Annoying, as ive never suggested that I have an unconditional 6 year warranty ive merely pointed out the act that covers me should the alternator be faulty or substandard. As they refused to sort it in the first place after several attempted contacts and me actually going into the garage I had no choice but to take it elsewhere and get the alternator independently checked out and tested to which according to this act it is up to me to prove that it is faulty to which I have done.

I feel the letter is written to scare me off. The fact my letter already stated their parts were substandard.

richardc1983

I have now sent a new letter:

Dear Mr X,

I write in response to your letter received on 24/10/14. I would like to bring to your attention a few points some of which were highlighted in my previous letter:

1. When I visited the garage on 28/08/14 and spoke with Fred he told me that the alternator that had been changed under warranty on 31/07/13 was sent back for testing and came back all clear. Could you advise me of what that report said and also send me a copy of this report along with the invoice as Fred claimed that you had to stand the cost of that alternator due to there being no fault found with it.

2. If this was the case and the alternator was fine, why did your garage not contact me one way or another to advise that the alternator had come back all clear and therefore, I quote what your garage said “must be a fault with something else on the car” and get my vehicle back in for testing as soon as possible as any responsible garage would and should have done.

3. Why was the alternator even replaced if there was nothing wrong with it? There must have been something wrong as I drove away that day with a working car and a charging battery. If there was something else amiss on the car then a new alternator would not have fixed the issue and certainly the report from Carl’s alleged testing would not have resulted in the diagnosis that there was nothing wrong with it. I quote what Michael your mechanic said over the phone approx 29/07/13 “It won’t be the alternator”. With this in mind and their confidence in what he said should the mechanic not have carried out further tests (as was offered the 2nd time round 28/08/14) to establish, should there be any, faults with the car electrical system that would have contributed to the issues I was experiencing at that time. The AA had already confirmed that it was the alternator that wasn’t charging from the test that they did so that alternator that was removed was faulty so I am not sure why the garage is saying any different.

4. An alternator whether genuine OEM or non genuine should last for a substantial length of time approx 50-70k. A non genuine fitted should be to the OEM standards and as you say they are “usually very reliable”. That is unfortunately not what I have experienced from this brand of alternator. Granted you wouldn’t expect them to last as long as a genuine but certainly a lot longer than 5696 miles for the first one then 10500 miles for the 2nd one. That is less than the average mileage for a year across both alternators and does not constitute a satisfactory quality product. I paid £350 for this alternator and at my current garage only £210 with the same warranty conditions. A big difference.

5. Your letter states that you are aware of the act that I referred to (supply of goods and services act), at no point have I suggested that this provides me with an unconditional six year warranty for any item. But as you have already quoted that “should it be established that the service/or goods supplied were not of satisfactory quality” this act then comes into action. This I feel is the valid point here. From my point of view as well as trading standards and my independent garage I feel that the fitted parts have not been of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose and have fallen below short of expectations as well as putting me at danger. As you may or may not be aware the alternator on my car has a vacuum pump built into it and this works in connection with the braking system servo. Had an inexperienced driver been in the same situation on the motorway as I had then I am sure the outcome may have been more serious. It is an extremely dangerous situation you left me in and a sorry letter does not put this situation right. Had the latter happened I feel it would be more than £350 that I would be claiming for.

6. In your letter you write that I can return the alternator and you will send it off to the manufacturer for testing to establish why it has failed. This responsibility as per the act lies with me to prove (at my cost) that the alternator was at fault. I had already given you ample opportunity as a company to put this right. You then left me with no alternative but to get the work carried out elsewhere. With this in mind my garage sent the alternator off for independent testing as well as having an auto electrician check out my vehicle to check that there were no other faults with the car. The result from this as stated before in my last letter that the alternator had failed due to overheating and as a result had burnt out. There are 2 possible reasons for this, 1 that there is something else on the vehicle that is causing it to fail or 2 that the fitted part was faulty or not of satisfactory quality and not up to the job of providing the car with the required power. 1 has been checked and confirmed that there was nothing else wrong on my vehicle which then falls back on point 2 that the fitted part was not (as per the act) of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or as described. A copy of a report from the garage can be given for your reference purposes. For your reference I have included the main part of the act that this falls under again below.

If the garage replaces a part during the service or repair, you are entitled to expect that the part is:
• Of satisfactory quality - the part should be free from minor defects, safe and durable for a reasonable length of time. When assessing satisfactory quality, you should take into account, price, age, and condition at the time of supply
• Fit for its purpose and any purpose made know to the trader - the part should perform as it is designed to do and must also be fit for any specific or particular purpose made known to the garage at the time of the agreement
• As described - the part should correspond with any description applied to it. In some circumstances the garage may be liable for any statement made by the manufacturer of the part

As all the above in point 6 has been carried out and it has been proven at my own expense that the alternator was faulty a full refund should be given of £350. (A copy of the report can be provided if requested). I note that you are a member of both the Motor Codes & RMI Trade Associations with a code of practice setting out standards of service that you must follow. Please respond within 14 days from the date of this letter.

Yours Sincerely

mattyprice4004

I find it very worrying that you'd continue to drive a car with a clearly faulty alternator. Especially when it caused problems on a motorway of all places!
I hope you'll reconsider doing such a thing in future after that scare- it's not fair to put others in danger just because you can't afford to have it repaired.
Fair enough, they should have sorted it - but if they wouldn't sort it, driving it anyway with a known fault was rather reckless.

richardc1983

I did not continue to drive when this happened on the motorway I took it straight to my garage to have replaced. I didn't know this was going to happen. If I don't have my car I can't work I already couldn't afford to have the alternator replaced and as it had not failed completely I had to continue driving it. Obviously the motorway was prob the wrong place to be but it appeared to be working again at that point.

arcon5

• Your letter is overkill.
• You are:

a) required to prove the fault to be inherent, since it's been 2 years
and
b) wouldn't be entitled to a FULL refund anyway. They can deduct an amount for usage - which is 2 years (even though you've had multiple, it's still classed as 2 years from original purchase).

• Your car has destroyed 3 alternators - this leads me to think either a) you are fitting the wrong parts; or b) your car is destroying it - would be one hell of a coincidence to get 3 different faulty ones.

• "“suspect glow plug control unit fault that was causing back feeding into the alternator will require a new control module”. This faulty part I was already aware of and had already sourced a replacement to be fitted by an alternative garage."
  
  They claim the fault was caused by back feed of a faulty part, you agree the mentioned part was faulty. I'm struggling to see how they're liable if it was not faulty - just damaged by your faulty car.

• A car doesn't run off battery supply when running. The auxiliarys are run by the belt, which in turn is run by the crank and camshafts, in turn run by fuel. You'd experience difficulties - but to lose all power sounds odd to me.

richardc1983

arcon5 wrote: »

• Your letter is overkill.
• You are:

a) required to prove the fault to be inherent, since it's been 2 years
and
b) wouldn't be entitled to a FULL refund anyway. They can deduct an amount for usage - which is 2 years (even though you've had multiple, it's still classed as 2 years from original purchase).

• Your car has destroyed 3 alternators - this leads me to think either a) you are fitting the wrong parts; or b) your car is destroying it - would be one hell of a coincidence to get 3 different faulty ones.

• "“suspect glow plug control unit fault that was causing back feeding into the alternator will require a new control module”. This faulty part I was already aware of and had already sourced a replacement to be fitted by an alternative garage."
  
  They claim the fault was caused by back feed of a faulty part, you agree the mentioned part was faulty. I'm struggling to see how they're liable if it was not faulty - just damaged by your faulty car.

• A car doesn't run off battery supply when running. The auxiliarys are run by the belt, which in turn is run by the crank and camshafts, in turn run by fuel. You'd experience difficulties - but to lose all power sounds odd to me.

Thank you for your comments, I would like to point out...

There have been 2 alternators that are applicable to this issue. The 1st alternator which you may think is the 3rd is the original alternator and its fair to say age along with wear and tear snuffed this one. Totally accepting that this failed with valid reason it was 8 or so years old - inconvenient at the time of course. The 2nd which replaced the 1st (original) failed and then was replaced by the 3rd. But in total there have only been 2 alternators replaced by that garage. The original and the warranty replacement.

a) Fault has already been proved to be the alternator, nothing else wrong with the car, has been checked out by an auto electrician and the alternator sent off to be tested.

b) Fair enough, but due to the inconvenience I am pushing for the full ammount.

c) The claim where they say it was a faulty part, this was awaiting replacement not because it was faulty and would cause an issue with the alternator but because it was bringing up a fault code. I had it verified that this would not cause an issue with the electrical system just a fault code. This was the glow plug relay and was actually unplugged on my vehicle by the AA awaiting a replacement and therefore was not the contributor as stated above. The 2nd alternator they fitted was fitted with the new glow plug relay fitted. I quote you "Your car has destroyed 3 alternators - this leads me to think either a) you are fitting the wrong parts; or b) your car is destroying it - would be one hell of a coincidence to get 3 different faulty ones." - I have not fitted any parts to the car. The garage have they specified what to use as I am sure all garages are capable of doing that? Its already been confirmed there is nothing on the car destroying it.

d) If this was the cause of the alternator breaking why are the garage saying a year later that the alternator they replaced under the warranty came back from testing with nothing wrong with it when I drove away that day with a working alternator. Its been questioned by my garage and other professionals in the know how, why would a working alternator not work on one car (but when sent off for testing it works) and why would I drive away with a replacement alternator that worked? It makes no sense and they are pulling a quick one.

e) I suggest you read up about how an alternator supplies power to a car. Before you start the engine, your car electrical system will use the battery once the engine is started the alternator tops up the battery whilst you use any power that the car requires from the alternator. If that alternator is not working properly or fails completely then your car will then be running only on battery power which would drain to the point where the car electrical system will cut out. If there is no alternator there is no charging going on so that battery will run out eventually which is the issue I experienced on the motorway. Obviously there was enough power to run the fuel pump but the car was shutting down power to non essential items etc. So your explanation is wrong. When I reached the garage with the car it would then not start so this proved that the battery had indeed gone flat as per the warning lights and symptoms experienced. It was also confirmed the battery was dead due to the failed alternator.

Pretty simple really when you understand how a car works, the problem we have though is a garage who were difficult the first time round to try to get them to replace the alternator and before they even looked at it they seemed telepathic and said there's no way the alternator would have failed. I felt immediately wary of them as they were saying then I would have to buy a new one. After much struggle they replaced it when I took it down and they knew it had failed. These type of garages assume that people know nothing about cars based on how they look (I am gay) the same goes for woman, they are ripped off or have unnecessary work done because they assume they will not challenge it. That sort of thing is forever in the media or watchdog and proven.

I work with the girl who reccomended this garage as her fella works there. When it went wrong under the warranty she let it sleep that she had "told her fella not to rip me off as she has to work with me and that she knows what you lads are like in that garage"