Stay or go? EU poll - Oh the irony.

danothy

michaels wrote: »

Is there a net level of contribution above which membership would not be in the uk interest?

Probably, in much the same way that there's a level of earning and subsequent taxation that means participation in the PAYE system isn't in an individuals interest leading to tax avoidance or relocation.

N1AK wrote: »

It's exactly like that, but that won't stop the anti-EU brigade acting like it's a crime against humanity. Obviously the EU didn't help itself with how it announced it and asked for virtually immediate payment but it's a non-issue.

You can see the most obvious nonsense on here in the posts that claim it punishes success etc. I get taxed more for earning more as does everyone in this country and that's not typically seen as punishment.

I think you are right that higher taxation for higher earning isn't typically seen as punishment, but I personally think it works against success. Morally I don't agree with it particularly either, although I do see it as somewhat necessary due to our societal structure. In this particular case though it certainly doesn't appear punitive, just a rebalancing. Other countries are getting overpayments returned, I presume we would be too if we had gone down the tubes. I wonder who would be complaining (or even mention it) then?

Bantex wrote: »

When a government give away powers such as tax raising and border control to a foreign entity, I believe it is beyond their mandate. It is certainly not democratic.

I have to wonder how 'foreign' the EU really is when we are in fact part of it and part of the decision making process for the whole entity. It's sort of like asking how British the Cornish are and whether or not they are ruled by a 'foreign entity'.

Graham_Devon

N1AK wrote: »

It's exactly like that, but that won't stop the anti-EU brigade acting like it's a crime against humanity. Obviously the EU didn't help itself with how it announced it and asked for virtually immediate payment but it's a non-issue.

You can see the most obvious nonsense on here in the posts that claim it punishes success etc. I get taxed more for earning more as does everyone in this country and that's not typically seen as punishment.

It's blown up into quite something if it's a none issue.

Theres now an emergency meeting to take place in the EU. Tory MPs have stated they will resign if Cameron pays it. John Pinar on the BBC suggested it will wipe the tories out at the next election if it's paid.

George Osborne is calling it illegal and completely unacceptable.

It's not like tax on earnings at all. We know how much income tax we will have to pay. To compare it to income tax we'd have to assume the taxman would turn around at the end of the year and ask for an additional one off payment on top of your normal tax payment simply because you have made more money than last year.

If we are going to look at it in tax terms, it's more like the mansion tax, where the taxpayer suddenly finds out that they have to pay a load of tax...but even worse in that they will have had no idea the tax was even about to take place.

Either way, whatever we compare it to, the way this has been done and planned is absolutely awful. We shouldn't expect stuff like this from the EU. Even I'm surprised by the way they have gone about this and I say this as someone who doesn't hold the EU in high regard.

It's one thing to ask for more money.... but it's another to demand it out of the blue like this.

Thrugelmir

N1AK wrote: »

Oddly enough I pay income tax, which I knew about when I chose to stay in the UK. The UK pays into the EU based on the agreed formula, whatever that may be. I don't give a fig if the EU fees are based on how often it rains, the fact it would be a stupid way to pay doesn't mean we get to legitimately whine about it when that's what we agreed to.

When was failure ever rewarded? France benefits. Yet the Uk and the likes of Greece suffer. Due to the estimated value of the black economy? Total nonsense.......

N1AK

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It's blown up into quite something if it's a none issue.

Theres now an emergency meeting to take place in the EU. Tory MPs have stated they will resign if Cameron pays it. John Pinar on the BBC suggested it will wipe the tories out at the next election if it's paid.

George Osborne is calling it illegal and completely unacceptable.

We've received rebates through the exact same process in the past and I can't recall anyone suggesting we should pay those back, or that anyone complained at the time.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It's not like tax on earnings at all. We know how much income tax we will have to pay. To compare it to income tax we'd have to assume the taxman would turn around at the end of the year and ask for an additional one off payment on top of your normal tax payment simply because you have made more money than last year.

We don't know how much income tax we will have to pay at the start of the year. If I get a pay rise in August, or I do self-assessment and earn more in the year than expected, I will pay more tax than I would have estimated at the beginning of the year and I wouldn't think that was remotely unfair. Just as if I got made redundant part way into the year I would expect to pay less tax than originally estimated.

The conservatives have dug themselves into this hole. They've taken every opportunity to blame the EU they can, complain loudly about every foible etc to appease their right wing. Now they're so dependent on that voting block they can't escape.

N1AK

Thrugelmir wrote: »

When was failure ever rewarded? France benefits. Yet the Uk and the likes of Greece suffer. Due to the estimated value of the black economy? Total nonsense.......

Failure isn't rewarded here, unless you consider stopping income tax on someone who is made redundant part way through the year a reward.

It's ridiculous language that just emphasises that a large demographic are literally incapable of seeing anything that Europe does rationally.

N1AK

Bantex wrote: »

I believe the rules were changed last year on how the calculations are done.

Who are the "we" that agreed to it?

Are all EUphobes really this ignorant. We changed how we calculate our GDP/GNI:

Joe Grice, chief economic adviser at the ONS, said: “As economies develop and evolve, so do the statistics we use to measure them.

I know I'm wasting my time though, because even if we invaded Europe and forced them at gun point to take the money from us we'd still see ignorant people claiming it was the bloomin' EUs fault.

mayonnaise

Graham_Devon wrote: »

. We know how much income tax we will have to pay. To compare it to income tax we'd have to assume the taxman would turn around at the end of the year and ask for an additional one off payment on top of your normal tax payment simply because you have made more money than last year.

Yes, I think that's usually how it works, if you earn more money, you pay more tax. What is a 'normal' tax payment?

Bantex_2

Cannot see why we have to pay them anything at all?
Why not just decide for ourselves where our own cash is spent.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It's not like tax on earnings at all. We know how much income tax we will have to pay. To compare it to income tax we'd have to assume the taxman would turn around at the end of the year and ask for an additional one off payment on top of your normal tax payment simply because you have made more money than last year.

I'll pay more tax this year. Simply because I made more money than last year. That's how it works - PAYE or a balancing payment at self assessment doesn't make any difference.

This is actually very dull economically. It looks similar to a retrospective discount that anyone who sells stuff will be used to negotiating. You agree a price per unit but, say, agree a a further 5% discount if turnover equals £1m. When these invoices arrive you're happy to have met a turnover target, unhappy that the customer remembered to send an invoice but never surprised to receive it.

That's what I'd want to know - was it truly a surprise to the treasury?

mayonnaise

N1AK wrote: »

Are all EUphobes really this ignorant.

They are.