Stay or go? EU poll - Oh the irony.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

And what of the people that want to stay in the EU with the deal we currently have?

How would their concerns be addressed by a PM trying to change things?

the current deal isn't a deal; it is a process of loss of democracy, loss of independence, economic decline, inevitable social collapse and conflict, ending in war

Thrugelmir

Originally Posted by HAMISH_MCTAVISH
And what of the people that want to stay in the EU with the deal we currently have?

What deal? The EU operates under treaties that are agreed all by member states. Hence why Brussels can tell us what the UK to do. The UK is an island with a limited capacity to absorb a huge further influx of people. There's another 7 countries aiming to join the EU.

By limited capacity. I refer to the basic provision of housing, power and water in particular. Let alone the stress on the NHS and benefits system.

padington

Have you heard the news ? EU beurocrats have announced that because the UK has been doing better, it needs to pay an extra 2.1billion by December. It's a UKIP gold mine. This was totally unexpected.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/23/uk-european-commission-eu-budget-contribution

TickersPlaysPop

Thrugelmir wrote: »

After listening to viewpoints from other "Europeans" over the past few days. There's a very different view from across the Channel. The EU's direction is a federal superstate. Always has been as far as the powerful bureaucrats in Brussels are concerned. If the UK wishes to go it's own way then so be it. The key is getting on board with the Germans. There's work to be done in that area to gain their support for reforms that are acceptable.

The idea that the EU leaders/ bureaucrats are not bothered about the UK leaving the EU is an important one. How sure are we that this is the case?

If the UK leaves it could encourage other countries to go the same root, I.e. Result in more anti EU MEP's within the parliament of which there are not enough right now to impact proceedings, and more in/out referendums across the EU member states. Surely the EU would be worried about sparking such a trend?

In_For_A_Penny_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

And what of the people that want to stay in the EU with the deal we currently have?

How would their concerns be addressed by a PM trying to change things?

Is this the deal you're talking about?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29751124

danothy

In_For_A_Penny wrote: »

Is this the deal you're talking about?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29751124

Isn't this just like an individual earning more than they expected and consequently being asked to pay more tax? I.e. the deal was that countries contribute based on their GNI and our GNI is bigger than we predicted so we now contribute the difference?

michaels

danothy wrote: »

Isn't this just like an individual earning more than they expected and consequently being asked to pay more tax? I.e. the deal was that countries contribute based on their GNI and our GNI is bigger than we predicted so we now contribute the difference?

Is there a net level of contribution above which membership would not be in the uk interest?

michaels

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

With polling suggesting a clear majority in favour of staying in the EU and no political party having been elected into a majority government while offering a referendum on their manifesto, there is simply no democratic mandate to hold one at the moment.

And as we saw from the Scottish experience, such a referendum would cost a fortune, would rapidly degenerate into hate fuelled bitter and divisive behaviour, and lead to years of deferred business investment, not to mention tens of thousands of jobs left uncreated while the uncertainty continued.

Why on earth should we go through that, given the above two points?

Is being in favour of an outcome the same thing as not being in favour of having a say on that outcome? I am not sure where I stand on EU member ership, I am very sure there should be a referendum on it.

One thing is certain, there will be no.renegotiation in favour of the uk unless there is a credible threat that the uk might leave hence the EU currently ignoring the issue in the belief that it will go away after a labour victory in May.

Bantex_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

With polling suggesting a clear majority in favour of staying in the EU and no political party having been elected into a majority government while offering a referendum on their manifesto, there is simply no democratic mandate to hold one at the moment.

And as we saw from the Scottish experience, such a referendum would cost a fortune, would rapidly degenerate into hate fuelled bitter and divisive behaviour, and lead to years of deferred business investment, not to mention tens of thousands of jobs left uncreated while the uncertainty continued.

Why on earth should we go through that, given the above two points?

So a poll of a few thousand people should overide a full democratic referendum?

We might as well abolish elections as well on that basis and just have a panel that decided who we would have voted for.

N1AK

danothy wrote: »

Isn't this just like an individual earning more than they expected and consequently being asked to pay more tax?

It's exactly like that, but that won't stop the anti-EU brigade acting like it's a crime against humanity. Obviously the EU didn't help itself with how it announced it and asked for virtually immediate payment but it's a non-issue.

You can see the most obvious nonsense on here in the posts that claim it punishes success etc. I get taxed more for earning more as does everyone in this country and that's not typically seen as punishment.