Stay or go? EU poll - Oh the irony.

Bantex_2

N1AK wrote: »

It's exactly like that, but that won't stop the anti-EU brigade acting like it's a crime against humanity. Obviously the EU didn't help itself with how it announced it and asked for virtually immediate payment but it's a non-issue.

You can see the most obvious nonsense on here in the posts that claim it punishes success etc. I get taxed more for earning more as does everyone in this country and that's not typically seen as punishment.

Oddly enough even you would be unlikely to be taxed on such things as drug dealing and prostitution. It appears that part of this payment is to cover an estimated value for such items. (even though they produce nothing for the treasury)

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

So a poll of a few thousand people should overide a full democratic referendum?

We might as well abolish elections as well on that basis and just have a panel that decided who we would have voted for.

Not really.

It's rather like the difference between having a referendum on Scottish independence and Surrey's independence.

The Scots had shown a possible preference for independence by voting SNP. The people of Surrey haven't voted for their own SNP and so haven't been given a referendum.

The people of Britain haven't voted UKIP into Parliament at all
(yet) let alone given them a majority of seats. A referendum, as we have seen from the Scottish example, has the potential to be divisive and is certainly expensive.

Why would you have a vote on the EU any more than Surrey as things stand?

Bantex_2

Generali wrote: »

Not really.

It's rather like the difference between having a referendum on Scottish independence and Surrey's independence.

The Scots had shown a possible preference for independence by voting SNP. The people of Surrey haven't voted for their own SNP and so haven't been given a referendum.

The people of Britain haven't voted UKIP into Parliament at all
(yet) let alone given them a majority of seats. A referendum, as we have seen from the Scottish example, has the potential to be divisive and is certainly expensive.

Why would you have a vote on the EU any more than Surrey as things stand?

Because I believe previous governments gave away powers beyond what the constitution or the electorate should have without any mandate.

It needs to be sorted once and for all one way or the other.

N1AK

Bantex wrote: »

Oddly enough even you would be unlikely to be taxed on such things as drug dealing and prostitution. It appears that part of this payment is to cover an estimated value for such items. (even though they produce nothing for the treasury)

Oddly enough I pay income tax, which I knew about when I chose to stay in the UK. The UK pays into the EU based on the agreed formula, whatever that may be. I don't give a fig if the EU fees are based on how often it rains, the fact it would be a stupid way to pay doesn't mean we get to legitimately whine about it when that's what we agreed to.

Bantex_2

N1AK wrote: »

Oddly enough I pay income tax, which I knew about when I chose to stay in the UK. The UK pays into the EU based on the agreed formula, whatever that may be. I don't give a fig if the EU fees are based on how often it rains, the fact it would be a stupid way to pay doesn't mean we get to legitimately whine about it when that's what we agreed to.

I believe the rules were changed last year on how the calculations are done.

Who are the "we" that agreed to it?

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

Because I believe previous governments gave away powers beyond what the constitution or the electorate should have without any mandate.

It needs to be sorted once and for all one way or the other.

That's great. I believe that Governments shouldn't be able to tax more than 25-30% of GDP but unfortunately MPs keep getting elected that disagree with me.

That's the problem with living in a democracy: people get into power that disagree with you. We can't have a referendum each time you disagree with something.

Bantex_2

Generali wrote: »

That's great. I believe that Governments shouldn't be able to tax more than 25-30% of GDP but unfortunately MPs keep getting elected that disagree with me.

That's the problem with living in a democracy: people get into power that disagree with you. We can't have a referendum each time you disagree with something.

When a government give away powers such as tax raising and border control to a foreign entity, I believe it is beyond their mandate. It is certainly not democratic.

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

When a government give away powers such as tax raising and border control to a foreign entity, I believe it is beyond their mandate. It is certainly not democratic.

Scotland was able to do that when it joined the Union; the UK did the same. The precedent was set and followed.

Your democratic representatives did this in your name, that's how representative democracy works. You might not like some of the decisions that they make but you are free to stand yourself or to vote for someone that agrees with more of your ideas.

Bantex_2

Generali wrote: »

Scotland was able to do that when it joined the Union; the UK did the same. The precedent was set and followed.

Your democratic representatives did this in your name, that's how representative democracy works. You might not like some of the decisions that they make but you are free to stand yourself or to vote for someone that agrees with more of your ideas.

And Scotland were given a say on leaving the union.

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

And Scotland were given a say on leaving the union.

We're going round in circles now.

Scotland was given a say on leaving the Union because they expressed a possible preference for it at the ballot box. Britain has never voted en masse for a party that supported leaving the Union. The last time a mass party stood on a platform of leaving the EU (then EEC I think) was Labour in 1983 and they got destroyed at the ballot box.

If UKIP won a majority of votes or seats at a General Election than I'd expect a vote on EU membership. Until that happens then there's simply no mandate to p155 the money away on what amounts to a vanity project for Farage at present.