apprenticeships & WTC

kazzah

Hi there
I am hoping someone can help with a situation my son is in.
He is disabled and claims WTC - previously he was working on a temporary contract with our local council and then at the end of the contract started an apprenticeship with them.

We didn't inform WTC that his salary had dropped from £760 per month to £100 per week because in the past such notifications have caused immense problems.

Fast forward to today and we get a letter stating he is only working 13 hours per week and his WTC has ceased and he owes them £3k

on contacting them I found out that a random request for information with his employer had informed WTC of his salary the WTC system can't cope with the low salary combined with the hours worked so it calculates that he is only working 13 hours and the WTC stop

Ok - annoying but even worse- we have to appeal the decision and they AIM to look at THEIR mistake within 20 weeks
so potentially he will have to give up his apprenticeship because he can't afford to get to work or feed himself without the back up of the WTC

SO- do ANY of you people have any ideas of how we can get this sorted sooner than 20 weeks????

the woman on the help line told me also that when it IS sorted the same thing could happen again..............you couldn't make it up!

oh and to really add insult to injury - my sons apprenticeship?
an Apprentice BENEFITS advisor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

arcon5

A benefits advisor who thought it appropriate not to inform the benefits office of a material change in circumstances

xylophone

We didn't inform WTC that his salary had dropped from £760 per week to £100 per week because in the past such notifications have caused immense problems.

And not informing them has caused just as much of a problem?

If you had acted correctly at least you'd be making any complaint from a position of strength?

kazzah

arcon5 wrote: »

A benefits advisor who thought it appropriate not to inform the benefits office of a material change in circumstances

????
he is an APPRENTICE benefits advisor
his income changed from £760 per MONTH ( sorry my mistake in OP I said weekly)
to £400 PER MONTH

and as his annual review stated;
" is your total income for 2014-2015 likely to be more than £11420.00?"

if no
you annual review is now complete and you need do no more

so quite what you are implying by him not reporting it is beyond me?
the change in his material circumstances would have INCREASED his entitlement - not lowered it- but for the sake of not disrupting his claim he decided to leave things well alone- KNOWING he would not be OWING any monies to HMRC at the end of the tax year.

kazzah

blondebubbles wrote: »

Sorry, he was he claiming WTC earning £760 per week?

It is highly unusual for a claim to be terminated without any contact with the claimant. In these situations they normally write to the person claiming giving them a chance to explain before making a decision.

Also under RTI and employer declares an employees working hours, either by confirming less than 16 hours, 16-29 hours and 30+ hours. He may want to check what his employer is reporting.

If an appeal is already in then there is not much else that can be done as they are done in date order. Some people may suggest MP, depends on how helpful yours is.

sorry my mistake- he was earning that per calendar month - I simply wrote week in error.
Thanks to clarifying the RTI information - I kept asking WHAT the RTI actually consisted of and what information the employer had supplied to create the wrong information - but the manager I spoke with kept saying " I don't know what information the back office ask for or receive " ( and that is a direct quote)
I simply wanted to know WHAT had been requested/supplied so I knew what to ask for to supply the correct information.

It just seems annoying that it will take 20weeks to sort out.
I was surprised they didn't clarify anything - but the manager said they rely on the information given by the employer and that was it- i suppose the amended award we received today was "notification"

kazzah

I suspected they weren't trained - it is simply SO frustrating to speak with call centre personnel who are only able to recite their script

this lack of ability to contact an ACTUAL tax officer is shocking - if this were a medical setting the general public would not tolerate being "treated" by a secretary or receptionist - it;s obvious that HMRC doesn't want to pay actual tax officers to man "helplines" - but I do wonder if it would be more cost effective in the end.
it is soul destroying to be told there is a particular reason for something happening - and to formulate your dispute form - only to then discover the reason you have given isn't the actual reason the money has stopped - how can anyone be expected to give an accurate response to a query they know nothing about?

kazzah

sorry not making myself clear- the people on the tax credits helpline told me they are simply call centre staff and that they are not tax credit officers - that they have no remit other than answering the phone and sending out forms or changing basic details.

when i referred to not being able to speak with a tax officer I meant an actual tax credit officer/decision maker/ back office staff- the people who DO make the decisions and DO have the ability to process information and make appropriate changes.

belladonna13

kazzah wrote: »

sorry not making myself clear- the people on the tax credits helpline told me they are simply call centre staff and that they are not tax credit officers - that they have no remit other than answering the phone and sending out forms or changing basic details.

when i referred to not being able to speak with a tax officer I meant an actual tax credit officer/decision maker/ back office staff- the people who DO make the decisions and DO have the ability to process information and make appropriate changes.

You need to ask for a call back from someone who is qualified in tax credits. I had to do that for my ESA. With ESA they call you back within 24 hours.

Seems harsh to have to give up a good apprenticeship and the opportunity of a good career because the system is designed so that there is a backlog.

My MP was wonderful when I was having some problems with benefits. He had someone ring me with all the knowledge I needed within an hour and the issues I had were sorted quickly. So worth a try.

If you are disabled and can work or train to work then there should be someone who is trained not only in tax credits but in disability issues and rights also.

There are barriers for disabled people into employment and having the finances to be able to get to and from work or apprenticeship schemes or to arrange care around both the former or any other disability issues should be acknowledged and dealt with by someone who is trained to know and respond to those needs in whichever department of DWP or HMRC.

Good luck.

kazzah

thank you bella donna.
you are so correct - it is ludicrous that you cannot speak to the decision makers.
I am sure it would be a simple task to be able to e mail his contract of employment showing he works 37 hours per week and for his claim to be re-instated BUT the inability to contact ANYONE with the knowledge or clearance to make the change is so frustrating.

This situation is NONE of my son's making- so I don't see why there shouldn't be a facility for those people who are victims of HMRC inadequate systems to have their cases fast tracked

also I really don't see why it should be up to my son to DISPUTE the situation.

Equally I don't see why the fact "it is with the appeals unit" should matter either -this is precisely the sort of complaint which could be dealt with in one working day IF people were allowed to speak to someone who actually is qualified/interested/can make alterations

The difficulty is that Civil Servants are too protected from the people they should be helping and instead the staff who man the "helplines" are only employed so they can read the script

"you need to complete a dispute form"
"you can't speak to the appeals unit "

I feel sorry for them - I would hate to be employed in a job which is so stifling and pointless - because they are.

oh well...............he can move from one benefit to another - JSA and housing benefit here he comes !

pmlindyloo

I know you are annoyed but your son or you as his appointee has to accept some responsibility for this.

He has been claiming working tax credits and as such should have notified them of a change of circumstances (his reduction in earnings)and the fact that he has become an apprentice.

You also know that he has to work a minimum of 16 hrs a week to claim and the £100 a week he gets would not make sense for someone claiming they were working 16 hrs a week. They are not mind readers.

Everyone seems to think that they are a special case when it comes to claiming benefits. Each department deals with thousands of claims and rules have to be put in place which do not always fit individual circumstances. You cannot 'bend the rules' for individual cases. Everyone thinks that their case is individual and deserves special and speedy service.

The systems are imperfect and employees make mistakes. Not everyone can be trained as a specialist. if every decision maker answered individual calls then no decisions would be made causing more hold ups.

I am afraid it is very black and white when these huge organisations are trying to cope with large numbers of claimants.

To say he will claim JSA and HB instead is ridiculous.

He can continue with his apprenticeship and claim HB now because he is not receiving any working tax credits. Perhaps you can support him financially until this is sorted out.

You are not going to change the system so at least try to work with it.

So that you do not think that I am totally unsympathetic, CAB may be able to speak to someone on your behalf and check that they have all the information that they need and/or your MP might be able to speed up the appeal.

bloolagoon

Will he be entitled to WTC? I thought apprenticeship rules were that you had to be subject to tax and NI which on £100 a week he isn't.