My local council are a bunch of idiots.

Cerro

I think you have just become my personal hero!

Councils hate bad publicity, so making a song and dance about it annoys them. Its nice to see them brought down a peg. Truth is, all councils are worse than useless! All they do is collect the rubbish (which they no longer seem willing to do weekly anymore) and patch the roads (when they are going to be busy) and they can't even get that right. They do however manage a good job of shuffling paper and wasting money - ensuring that they use up their entire budget so they can justify taxing us more next year.

Instead of chasing after the people who are willing to pay, they should be going after the people who play the system - but that sounds too much like actual work now, doesn't it? Nah, better to sit back and take full advantage of your public sector contract (because a real job would hurt) - the only contracts I've seen which are better are those from big oil companies or banks but at least they get you to do some actual work, just goes to show how much we are wasting on these people.

wurlitzerwilly

mike_the_bike wrote: »

You are forgetting councils are run for the benefit of councils and not you..They are not in the slightest bit interested either in what you think.

Suggest you just pay it.

Too true my friend.

They do however tend to get interested when one of the local Councillors is hauled over the coals by the Courts and the newspapers. To quote Mr Dunn "They don't like it up 'em!"

The other point that seems to be being missed here is (as I said in my initial post) a mistake was made with the first payment set-up and the Council conceded this and accepted that they had indeed received payment, but had mislaid it, otherwise they'd be hounding me for that money as well. If they can make one gross error and admit it, they can make another. Shame they didn't learn by the first one, and anyway, why me TWICE?

Regards,

Alan.

fudgeukraine

Good luck but . . . .

You admit that after checking you owe them the money, yet are prepared to wait till it goes through court before you are forced to pay it - what's the point? to get your picture in the paper? Why? - the spin could go the other way and could come across as "man doesn't pay council tax untill court forces him to because he doesn't check his bank statements". As for trying to claim expenses at the same time I don't think that's feasible. For a start you state that you live on charitable donations so there's no loss of earnings to claim back. If, for some reason the judge takes leave of his senses and awards you something, I reckon the best you'll get is your bus fare to and from the court and a pound for the stamps and phone calls!

I'll be interested to know how this one pans out

Poppy9

I think you are onto a loser as a court will think you knew you hadn't paid them as most people check their bank accounts at least once a month. Councils too let people pay in installments over a year because it helps payers but technically your council tax is due on 1st April 2007 for the 2007/8 financial year, hence they can demand full payment. You don't have a right to pay over 10 or 12 months. The onus is on you to make payment not on the council to collect it from your bank account. You could easily have solved the problem by setting up a Standing Order where you control the payments but it would mean amending it every year for the increase (well it's never a decrease!).

If the council have made a mistake twice in the DD then you should lodge a formal complaint through their complaints procedure about poor administration but you won't get compensation from them for it. No one can force a council to compensate council tax payers, not even the ombudsman.

uktim29

The thing is the reaction the op has had on this thread is the same as people will think if it were to be in the papers. But it's not in the papers. If it were the reaction might even be worse, this is the reaction just to the suggestion and the situation.

It just seems the op is one of those people that when a mistake happens to them whoevers fault it is must really suffer "I had a great deal of personal satisfaction at bringing part of the Establishment to its knees". Or at least the op likes to think that in their mind. Although that was for a different situation it's the same mentality here. It's the sort of situation where someones world revolves around revenge and hate, and they always have an obsession with the word incompetence!

wurlitzerwilly

uktim29 wrote: »

The thing is the reaction the op has had on this thread is the same as people will think if it were to be in the papers. But it's not in the papers. If it were the reaction might even be worse, this is the reaction just to the suggestion and the situation.

It just seems the op is one of those people that when a mistake happens to them whoevers fault it is must really suffer "I had a great deal of personal satisfaction at bringing part of the Establishment to its knees". Or at least the op likes to think that in their mind. Although that was for a different situation it's the same mentality here. It's the sort of situation where someones world revolves around revenge and hate, and they always have an obsession with the word incompetence!

I presume that "the reaction the op has had" reference is the same one used to talk down to perfectly lucid persons who just happen to be forced to live their lives in wheelchairs but are highly capable of conducting their own argument?
I presume that you never had someone close to you die, due to another's negligent inaction? I presume that all those who say "roll over and submit" are without sufficient emotion, that they can just let matters pass unnoticed?
I presume that this forum is infected by a bunch of hypocrites (hopefully in the minority) who don't actually know why it exists and of course would never dream of reclaiming bank charges etc. that they consider to be unfair, because the "establishment's" always right and the "right" way in life is to conform and that Martin Lewis hasn't proved that the individual can actually win and Elvis is still in his younger years and working in a fish and chip shop in Watford?
Errrmmm....as for "hate and revenge" perhaps the spineless emotionally dead should avert their gaze slightly to the right where they will see the embellishment "CONSUMER REVENGE" put there by the perpetrators of this forum. Why use a forum that you don't agree with in principle?
Revenge was only a last resort when it proved impossible to make the miscreant admit his incompetence and to make his b*st*rd colleague admit his callousness in preferring to remain on the golf course rather than attend to his sworn duty to preserve life - a duty for which he was highly paid.

So I presume that what I consider to be the pinacle of Britishness (Oh sh*t, did I say "British"? Tut tut) - that's the right enjoyed for hundreds of years to peacefully protest (through the Courts if necessary) - is abhored by many, because it might offend the apparent sensitivities of said Establishment? If that's "hate and revenge", you betcha!!!

Perhaps it's worth considering that REAL "hate and revenge" is preaching to others or being a traitor oneself (or both), attempting to destroy or cause maximum suffering to anyone and anything to ensure that their perceived deity triumphs over my perceived deity. Yep, that's "hate and revenge" alright!

Regards,

Alan.

uktim29

I think you need help! It seems everything wrong in your life is always someones fault.

Perhaps your "emotionally dead" when it comes to realising others are only human.

taxiphil

Gosh, if the responders on this thread are a reflection of the British public, then we're a socially compliant lot, aren't we? It seems people are resigned to think that anyone in authority is automatically right (even when they are not) and that courts operate some kind of kanagroo justice system, always finding in favour of the council regardless of the facts.

What a defeatist, downtrodden nation we are. It goes a long way to explaining why this country is the way it is. I wonder exactly how bad things should get before we are allowed to "bleat"?

The OP has nothing to gain on here by changing the facts of this case, so it is reasonable to assess the case as it is presented here. That means accepting that no reminders were sent by the council - and that is the crux of this matter: the council not following correct procedure after its own original error.

By setting up a Direct Debit with the council, the OP has acted properly and had every intention to pay, in advance. Believe it or not the council is paid to get their operations in order. The OP is a layperson who is not paid to keep an eye on the council's operations. The council has a statutory duty to make taxpayers aware of payment arrears by sending out reminders, and it has failed in this. Hence it is entirely unfair that the OP should be forced into debt by being made to pay a year's Council Tax in advance.

I'd also advise the OP not to get too wound up by uktim29's comments. This is his hobby: lurking on the "Vent, Bent and Heaven Sent" board, always shouting down the complainant in every scenario, accusing them of being the guilty party and changing the facts of their cases, even though by the law of averages a great deal of those complaints will have been valid ones.

Cerro

taxiphil wrote: »

Gosh, if the responders on this thread are a reflection of the British public, then we're a socially compliant lot, aren't we? It seems people are resigned to think that anyone in authority is automatically right (even when they are not) and that courts operate some kind of kanagroo justice system, always finding in favour of the council regardless of the facts.

What a defeatist, downtrodden nation we are. It goes a long way to explaining why this country is the way it is. I wonder exactly how bad things should get before we are allowed to "bleat"?

+1

I think the word you are looking for is "Sheep". Heaven forbid anyone being upset with the service they get, how dare they complain! We should all suffer and be happy that we are all treated equally (badly). I am pretty shocked to see how many 'Yes' men are on these boards, they would accept anything and anyone who says otherwise must be a paranoid, deluded fool who thinks everything is a conspiracy theory or government cover-up! Being on a website based on consumer revenge and using legal loopholes to save money, might suggest a community that would be unwilling to accept things at face value - how wrong was I? If people took that attitude, black men would still be second rate citizens, women's roles would be in the home, children would be seen and not heard and homosexuals would remain socially unacceptable (because god told me so).

I think all local government workers should be reminded that we pay their wages and they should be held accountable. They should be questioned at every opportunity - it's not like they have a difficult job. Win or lose is not the point, a court might well rule in favour of the council because of the supposed, reminders that were sent. The point is the council is wrong and something should be done about, someone should be made accountable to make sure that this does not happen again. The average Joe should not have to check his bank balance every month (not everyone gets paper statements you know) to make sure that some useless fool in the council has bothered to collect the monthly fee. They should also not be in fear of suddenly being summoned to court and made to pay a full year in advance because of someone elses incompetance! To claim that it is your own responsibility to check if someone has collected your monthly fee or not is a cop-out from the "no-blame" culture.

Poppy9

Cerro wrote: »

The average Joe should not have to check his bank balance every month (not everyone gets paper statements you know)

I'm shocked that you say that you should not have to check your bank balance every month. I check mine every few days on-line. Banks make mistakes and it's a lot easier to monitor your account while recent transactions are fresh in your mind. Also being a good MSE I calculate what funds I need for the next few transactions and put the balance in an on-line saver to maximise my income.

It's people not checking their bank accounts and being blase towards managing their money that end up over drawn and with bank charges.

It's your money and you have to take responsibilty for it.