Stop Bloody Moaning!!!

Jason74

James_B. wrote: »

But everyone born healthy in the UK gets that same start. We've schools provided for us, and an NHS that, despite moans, is still excellent.

To be born here and still say "I never had a chance" is just ludicrous.

With the best will in the world, the part of your post in bold is no less wrong than if you'd said that 1+1=50 . Yes, it's true that even those close to the "bottom of the pile" in the UK have a level of opportunity greater than that of the majority of people in many other countries. But to suggest that someone born to a poor and uneducated single mother in a deprived inner city area has "the same start in life" as a child born into a stable and affluent middle class home in a good area is plain wrong (and that's before we start on the advantages enjoyed by those born into very wealthy families).

Of course, what should be done about those inherent inequalities of opportunity is another question entirely, and there are quite legitimately a wide range of views on that. But to try and deny the existance of a reality almost universally acknowledged by politicians accross the political spectrum is at best niaive.

Generali

padington wrote: »

All of which had empires or were very powerful relatively at one time or other.

Yes they did but I'm not sure how that relates to the point I was making.

Can you clarify?

ruggedtoast

padington wrote: »

You have to factor in that we are a unique island that doesn't get extreme weather. It's possible that was simply the edge we needed. Every other good decision might have come from the fact that our environment was just more advanced, allowing us to be more development than the rest. One day no doubt the rest of the world will catch up.

The Indus civilisation was inventing astronomy and sculpture when we were paying people a small fortune to draw us on outlandishly small horses with the background all out of perspective.

padington

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The Indus civilisation was inventing astronomy and sculpture when we were paying people a small fortune to draw us on outlandishly small horses with the background all out of perspective.

And I'm sure there was a myriad of reasons why that happened mainly including resources, environment, unique individuals, technology and luck. Not because many people utilised their free will in a more productive way.

It's possible I guess that it was also because of a forced Protestant work ethic through a very effective use of slavery, which would reinforce the free will camp, in an ironic kind of way.

However I go back to my original premise, if you were given the genes of a fool and the life experience of a fool, could you be less foolish ?

padington

Generali wrote: »

Yes they did but I'm not sure how that relates to the point I was making.

Can you clarify?

I was saying a kind environment is key reason why early man succeeded and you cited lots of countries that had kind environments and which succeeded.

Which just reinforced my argument and undermined yours no ?

allthingsmustpass

James_B. wrote: »

I've really not come across anyone that did everything right from a young age and who still struggles.

Never met anyone under 40?

ruggedtoast

padington wrote: »

And I'm sure there was a myriad of reasons why that happened mainly including resources, environment, unique individuals, technology and luck. Not because many people utilised their free will in a more productive way.

It's possible I guess that it was also because of a forced Protestant work ethic through a very effective use of slavery, which would reinforce the free will camp, in an ironic kind of way.

However I go back to my original premise, if you were given the genes of a fool and the life experience of a fool, could you be less foolish ?

I'm not sure what the genes and life experience of a fool would be. We all have the opportunity to make a new start. Every second of every day.

padington

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I'm not sure what the genes and life experience of a fool would be. We all have the opportunity to make a new start. Every second of every day.

We don't have the same opportunity of free will though, someone with brilliant genes and a brilliant childhood is going to be light years ahead of someone with poor genes with a poor childhood when it comes to making this daily new start.

wotsthat

padington wrote: »

We don't have the same opportunity of free will though, someone with brilliant genes and a brilliant childhood is going to be light years ahead of someone with poor genes with a poor childhood when it comes to making this daily new start.

Genetics are irrelevant over short periods of time.

Any short term compounding of human capital is for cultural reasons. Culture can change rapidly. A child with, say, parents who value education are likely to be taught those values too and be at an advantage. Culture changes rapidly so exceptions can be easily found.

Bantex_2

wotsthat wrote: »

Genetics are irrelevant over short periods of time.

Any short term compounding of human capital is for cultural reasons. Culture can change rapidly. A child with, say, parents who value education are likely to be taught those values too and be at an advantage. Culture changes rapidly so exceptions can be easily found.

Genetics are relevant in the sense that you can only work with what you are born with.