Am I being bullied??

CFC

Toots wrote: »

I agree with Ben500. If I were in your position I would go back to my supervisor and request information to support his claim regarding your attitude and I would want specifics on complaints from others. If he can't or won't provide this then I would contact HR and invoke the grievance procedure.


You have been there for 5 years and they are happy with the standard of your work. Surely if they thought you have an attitude problem it would have been raised before now?

Best wishes to you.

Toots

I am absolutely certain you will get nowhere putting in a grievance on the grounds that your manager has given you feedback on this occasion (albeit ineffectually) and asked you to change your attitude. In fact, it is more likely to support an overall perception that you do indeed have a poor attitude to others ie in specific that you cannot take feedback. It could even result in more of a problem than you have now. I would not advise you to do this.

In terms of 'raising it before now', people change. Simply being a long standing employee will not mean that an attitude cannot become poor.

You really need to come across as totally willing to change anything that others are finding difficult providing your manager can tell you what that is. You simply say to him that he needs to provide a ballpark sketch of the perceived problem, even if it as basic as 'patronising tone of voice to colleagues' or 'constantly questioning what you are asked to do', or 'unwilling to be flexible in job role', or 'confrontational with colleagues'...he has to be able to say something about it, even if he can't give a specific example at that moment. Just saying 'poor attitude' is not enough without saying in what kind of manner the attitude he is complaining of is poor.

ceridwen

HI

you seem to be saying all the right things etc as far as I can see - asking for specific examples of what they are complaining about - looks like you are doing your bit, what more can you do? Do join the Union pronto though and do keep a diary of events - time, date etc of what is happening (written down as soon as poss after the event - contemporaneous - thats the word I want). Maybe they're just trying to "get your goat" - ie try and get you to resign supposedly of your own free will (its a common ploy of management). Hang on in there - and do your best to forget the place the second you step out the door.

olly300

All those who are telling the OP to change don't know what they are talking about.

If the supervisor has a problem with the OP they need to tell them what it is and give specific examples otherwise it seems like the problem is with the supervisor i.e. they can't cope that they have a clever team member, and therefore they are bullying to hide their own inadequacy and lack of management skill.

I suggest the OP reads bullyonline, starts looking for another job and I've also PM'd them with some information. Joining a union may or may not help it is a matter of luck of what union rep you can get in touch with.

HappyG1rl

XME_WYWH:D wrote: »

I'm only starting to think that I'm being bullied - I don't know for sure which is why I posted. I'm not sure you are being bullied.
I only found out about the talking behind my back from my [shift manager] during our meeting the other day.

[shift manager] has been here as long as me but only as the shift manager for a relatively short time and didn't really want the job and felt that he was forced into it. Until he was in this role we were best buddies on shift. There was a serious issue a few months ago that blew up out of all proportion and he and I discussed it and things were fine,

Maybe they weren't fine and you perhaps just thought they were?

however, he felt he needed further advice so spoke to his manager and in less than 24 hours he completely changed his mind about the situation and I was informed that my behaviour was grounds for serious misconduct which I disagreed with.

If you did anything that was considered serious misconduct then why didn't they issue you with some sort of warning under a grievance procedure?

He later said that his boss said that the shift managers and deputies should stick together no matter who was right or wrong. He's not had any personnel training.

I stopped talking on a personal level a while ago but do discuss work issues and ask questions and provide answers/guidance when I can.

This won't have helped your relationship.

Here's my account of what happened the other day which prompted my thread...

---

[shift manager] requested a 1:1 word with me. He said he had problems with me but when I asked for examples and for him to be more specific he was unable to provide any more information. I said that in order to help him I would need more information. He asked for suggestions on how to improve things. I said I couldn't provide assistance without knowing what the problem was. I asked if my work was an issue - he said that my work was fine and that he didn't have any problems with my work. I stated that if I receive a call, ticket or alarm and I'm unsure then I ask and provided the example of a week ago where I asked him to confirm something to which he nodded his head by way of remembrance.

I told him that he was being too vague and even asked him to step into my shoes, say to himself what he had just said to me, and then try to come up with some improvements. I stated that I wasn't being difficult but he wasn't giving me anything to go on. He stated that he thought I was being difficult.

Maybe you worded this a little insensitively? Perhaps you could have just asked for the examples rather than telling him he was being too vague. I know it's the same thing but he may have taken this as personal criticism of how he was handling things?


He said that he felt that my appraisal in Feb of this year was the best on our shift but that I've always had team issues.
Was he the one who conducted your appraisal? The appraisal should cover your interaction with others as well as how you do the job.

If he feels you've "always" had team issues it sounds like they have never been raised with you before. Is this the case? Perhaps his inexperience and inadequacy in his new role has resulted in him not having raised it previously?


I asked him to point them out and stated that I have all my past appraisals at home which I am happy to bring in if he wishes to read them.

He said that he felt the shift got on better when I wasn't in, and I said I thought the shift got on better when he wasn't in.

Bad move - you went for a childish tit for tat comment (although understandable that you felt on the defensive). Perhaps you could have just asked him what made him feel that?

He said that others start conversation when I go away from my desk. I said I couldn't comment on what happens when I'm not around. I said that I try to make conversation with people and if they don't respond very well I just think that they're having an 'off' day and leave them alone.

Could it be that you perhaps aren't always aware of the impact of your comments on others? I know I haven't perhaps been very self-aware in the past and in my younger days wasn't the most sensitive of people.

[shift manager] commented on how the shift is short staffed and that we need to pull together more. He also said that if the shift gets busy then people will need to double up on tasks. I said that we've done that in the past and pointed out that during busy times, or when the shift manager gets too busy that tasks should be delegated amongst the team. He said he was surprised by my response as he's heard that I was complaining about this. I said that he should have enough respect for me as a member of the team to ask me directly before believing others.
Mmmm - he most definitely shouldn't take other people's words for what you are supposed to have said.

He said he lost all respect for me during the issue with [team_member1] a few months ago. Wow - that's quite a strong statement from him - you obviously need to sort out the issue from the past with him in order to be able to move forward properly. But, remember that comment in case you need to use it in a grievance or tribunal in the future.

I said that when I see alarms coming in I ask the person if they need any help. I said that I've also asked him to let me know if he needs help with something to lessen his work load and he just hasn't asked for help. I said that my moaning with [team_member2] was instigated by [team_member2] moaning about the doubling up of duties. I said that before he raises issues he needs to find out everything before persuing it. He needs to know if people are just !!!!!ing or if there is a real problem. I said I was perfectly right to moan about the staff shortage issue given that sometimes when we finish our shift of 3 people there are 5 people coming in on the next shift. I said I was surprised that no one suitable has been found yet given that there will be graduates looking for jobs. He explained the issue with finding a replacement.
Although your overall comments are fine it does sound like some of these may have come across as telling him how to do his job (and he sounds like he needs it) and maybe they are as a result of your previous friendly relationship with him when he was just a peer. You need to show a little bit more respect for his position of authority.

[shift manager] said that tickets should not be logged to our teams queue at turnover time. I asked how I should work alarms that come in which state to log tickets to our teams queue. [shift manager] did not provide a verbal answer but shrugged his shoulders.
Mmmm he isn't very helpful is he?

He ended the meeting saying that he will talk to the others this week and he and I will have another meeting in a few weeks. He said he will try to provide examples.

I hope he isn't going to go to the enth degree to find examples now.

Is there any way you can speak to your colleagues and say that you are unhappy with the situation and would like to all get along? Perhaps say that if they have a problem with you and could explain it to you then you can try and resolve things together?

I hope you don't mind me putting in my ten pennorth - I don't meant to offend you as you are in a horrid position which I really hope you can sort out. Life's to short to not get on with colleagues.

CFC

I think that Toots has given some very sound advice.

In practical terms
[shift manager] said that tickets should not be logged to our teams queue at turnover time. I asked how I should work alarms that come in which state to log tickets to our teams queue. [shift manager] did not provide a verbal answer but shrugged his shoulders.
Mmmm he isn't very helpful is he?

You should ask him to provide a process to guide you and your colleagues in managing this. Make sure it appears in the notes of your 1-1.

You clearly don't have a good relationship with him and you need to be much more cautious and temperate in your dealings with him, in my opinion. He's clearly somebody that you could run a three ring circus round in terms of ability with words, but if you do that you will not only make the situation worse, but you will put yourself right up in the firing line for disciplinary as soon as grounds can be found.


This is especially so if you have been 'let off the hook' with the previous serious incident that you mentioned - an employer can show they are not overreacting if they have already had an issue of some kind with an employee prior to actually taking them to disciplinary - they've already been lenient once. I presume that the serious incident with another team member you were talking about in your other post was not the sickness issue you mention later on.

At the end of the day, best practice is to tell you exactly how you can improve your team working. However, even if a manager cannot do that, it doesn't negate the fact that you have to do it to improve your performance. You will need to give some serious thought yourself to where you are lacking in teamwork. Do you have a tendency to hunt with the hounds and run with the hare? Or do you think your capacity for team work is limited? I know mine is - I do not suffer fools gladly and having to work with other people is hell. I like to be in charge. In that case you have to accept you will always be marked down on team work and found fault with as it is a natural weakness for you.

From what you've said, it doesn't appear to me that you are being bullied at work.

CFC

What was the serious incident about that prompted you to suggest a mediation meeting?

ceridwen

Hi to OP

I think it could be useful at this point - and may help cast some light on how best to proceed at this point - if you were able to give some indication of what the problems are between yourself and the other team member. I have been on the receiving end myself of another problematic team member - so I do know how awkward someone can be to a colleague of theirs, including turning other people against you (you wouldnt believe some of it - I barely can myself when I think back on it!). I have now reached stage where I am not surprised any more by how often people dont think for themselves and form their own opinion about someone - I guess its often easier to take on board someone elses opinion, rather than take the trouble to work out your own. The decent people/more worthwhile ones are the ones who do form their own judgements. Sounds to me like your manager might possibly be ok with you left to himself, but then he goes off to higher management and they "stir it" and he goes for it because he knows he is less intelligent than you (and presumably than them as well - but they are more powerful than you). I have experienced having a supervisor that was less intelligent than me and admitted it to me, so I know where you are coming from.

HappyG1rl

XME_WYWH:D wrote: »

I've had issues with said team member/deputy for a long time. He has called me fat, has a very bad habit of telling people what to do (as opposed to asking), he has shouted at me and used to slam the phone down with a rant which only included expletives aimed at the person who had been on the phone but it was the shift who suffered it.
What did you do about this?
This is the point at which the problem should have been dealt with. You should not tolerate someone calling you fat or shouting at you. What did you do about it? You should have told him not to do it again and, if he took no notice, you should have made an official complaint about his behaviour towards you.

He used to have a major problem with breaking wind and would even go to someones desk in order to break wind as he thought it was funny. No one on shift appreciated this. The smell alone was bad enough. Oh, he also had a habit of drawing mens private parts on the rest of the teams cars. BTW we work in an open plan office environment.

However, when [shift _manager] was new in his role he knew that I was unhappy with the fact that I had not been offered a deputy role.
Do you think this might have partly coloured your viewpoint? - sometimes it is hard to accept this kind of disappointment particularly as you then had to report in to the promoted former peer.

When I queried why I wasn't asked, he said it had nothing to do with my health record but that people would leave. He would not explain anymore than that.
Had you a very bad health record then? Could this have anything to do with others not being happy with you - e.g. have they had to take on additional work a lot due to you being off sick?

I'm not being mean to you but this conversation should have set alarm bells ringing. To promote you would make other people leave? - I would be horrified if my boss said this to me and would certainly want to find out exactly what this was about. How did he know? - others MUST have raised issues with him about you for him to make such a statement unless it's a porky pie.

He did ask though if there was anything he could do to make life at work more bearable.
This sounds like he was on your side - I think you've been getting very conflicting messages from him.


I asked if he would speak with deputy about the wind issue and he did. I was on shift when the discussion took place and could hear the deputy shouting. After that meeting it was clear that the [shift_manager] had mentioned me by name as deputy refused to talk to me about anything. I was expecting [shift_manager] to say something like "the team would like you to stop breaking wind", after all it was something that we all generally complained about.
I can understand why you're bothered by this. He could have done it without mentioning names. However, it is a delicate issue to have to deal with and his lack of experience may have resulted in this being handled badly rather than meaning to drop you in it.

A few months ago, I answered the phone and tried to help someone and asked another member to check something else whilst I was on the phone. Seconds later deputy said to transfer the call.
You should have transferred the call when asked. Maybe the new deputy thought you were disrespcting him? He must be aware that you were expecting to get his job and may have felt you were putting obstacles in his way.
Seconds later member said he'll be a minute to check. I didn't see any harm in this and if anything considered this to be team work. Deputy shouted at me to transfer the call and do as I was told - literally. Because I was irked, I transferred the call to the Deputy for him to deal with. Deputy later reported this to [shift_manager]. The entire incident was less than 5 minutes. It is the view of the [shift_manager] and his boss that because I did not act immediately on the advice of deputy that it is grounds for serious misconduct.
This doesn't sound like a case of serious misconduct to me, and I'm sure that if your shift manager and his boss really thought that it was, they would have taken action against you. I would not worry about this being used against you in future as no official warnings were given to you.

FYI, there are many occasions where managers are wrong and only when one of us reminds them of something do they change their mind and usually this is considered team work but apparently not on this occasion.
Fact of life and a lot of managers are totally cr$p but we need to show respect for their authority.

Now I find that the team member who was helping me during the above call issue, is now b't'ch'g behind my back and [shift_manager] is choosing to believe him.
What are they saying about you?

[shift_manager] has also had issues with deputy (deputy called [shift_manager] a racist) - but since [shift_manager] was told "managers should stick together" he goes out of his way to get along with deputy.
Is deputy in an ethnic minority? If so the shift leader may be worried about being called this and being extra careful.

Prior to this [shift_manager] would ask for a chat and moan to me about the attitude and lack of skills the deputy has. [shift_manager] used to complain about the others too and use to say that he preferred it when I was on shift as we used to have such a good laugh.
I think the problem has arisen from promoting a peer or peers. The realationship you once had with both has to change to a certain degree. They haven't been given appropriate training to support the transition to their new roles so there are obviously going to be teething problems.

Thanks for reading

Your shift manager has probably realised over time that it isn't acceptable for him to sit and moan with you about your peers anymore and unfortunately you have to change the way you interact with him now. You can still be friendly and co-operative but there needs to be just a little bit of distance. I don't think you are being bullied by your shift leader but I think his inexperience is causing you problems.

I think there are quite a few issues all tied up in this and maybe everyone involved is partly to blame for the situation.


If you can't find a way of talking to your peers about this or having a professional and open chat to the shift leader in a real effort to resolve this then it may just be better to look for another job so that you are not unhappy. As your appraisal was the best amongst the team I would hope the shift leader would want to ensure the problem is resolved in order to keep you.

Do you have a HR department that you could go and talk to 'off the record' about this. They may be able to help with ideas for dealing with this.

ceridwen

Well - read your reply. What can I say? I am constantly astonished (okay - well I used to be - I have got more cynical as I got older!) about how childlike some people can be at work. An adult context - but there they are farting and doing stupid drawings in yr case. Stupid - or what! And thats the thing - tell yourself that no matter how childlike any work colleagues are - that you, at least, are going to act like an adult.

I guess this is where you mentally cut-off from such childlike antics - and try and stay as calm and adult as you can yourself. I know its far from easy - believe me! but try to stay as calm/rational/logical as you can yourself - whatever anyone else does. If you are acting like a reasonable adult sort of person - and they are not - then guess who has the upper hand morally? Got it in one - not them, thats for sure. Dont trade insults or anything with them - or anyone else - no matter what the provocation - and guess who has the moral high ground - and cant be said to have done anything wrong more to the point? Believe me - I know all about biting my tongue on this one.

SUESMITH_2

my advice after almost being bullied into a nervous breakdown is join a union and refuse to have any more meeting unless your union rep is with you. what happened to me has made me a much stronger person however i could have done without the 2 years on happy pills, good luck