Are the eternal optimists on here still feeling optimistic?

Crashy_Time

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

So in each of your 10 rentals, the landlords have charged exactly the same rental as each other? That's on odd coincidence. Are you sure that they were all of comparable quality over the years, or have they gone downhill as time has gone by and as the rental amount stayed the same?

You'd be struggling to get the sort of return from premium bonds, cash ISA and a tracker that would pay a retirement income. Have you looked at the returns from these investments? Those are probably the three worse vehicles for retirement income by the way, was that a deliberate choice to make a point? Are you a BTL investor really and just having a bit of fun?

You don`t get returns from premium bonds, they are a monthly draw for a million quid and other prizes, good in a deflationary environment IMO, unlike BTL.

MFW_ASAP

Crashy_Time wrote: »

You don`t get returns from premium bonds, they are a monthly draw for a million quid and other prizes, good in a deflationary environment IMO, unlike BTL.

Not according to MSE Martin:

"The value of prizes paid out is determined by an interest rate, which is currently 1.35%. It usually changes when the Bank of England base rate changes, but can also change depending on prevailing market savings rates, and on Government funding requirements.

The interest rate works like this. If you owned every Premium Bond in existence, the amount won over a year would be equal to 1.35% of what you put in. So very roughly, for every £100 put into Premium Bonds on average, you'd expect a £1.35 annual return.

Yet because of the way the prizes are allocated, the majority of people will win much less than the interest rate anyway. There's a full explanation of why this happens later, but for now you can use the Premium Bond Probability Calculator to see how likely you are to win an amount equal to the interest rate."

Premium bonds seem to be a poor investment, cash ISAs are not much better with a similar derisory interest rate and as far as your third suggestion of a FTSE tracker, I'd be interested to hear what return you'd expect from that without dipping into your capital?

Crashy_Time

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Not according to MSE Martin:

"The value of prizes paid out is determined by an interest rate, which is currently 1.35%. It usually changes when the Bank of England base rate changes, but can also change depending on prevailing market savings rates, and on Government funding requirements.

The interest rate works like this. If you owned every Premium Bond in existence, the amount won over a year would be equal to 1.35% of what you put in. So very roughly, for every £100 put into Premium Bonds on average, you'd expect a £1.35 annual return.

Yet because of the way the prizes are allocated, the majority of people will win much less than the interest rate anyway. There's a full explanation of why this happens later, but for now you can use the Premium Bond Probability Calculator to see how likely you are to win an amount equal to the interest rate."

Short version; Most people don`t get a return from it, it is effectively a lottery ticket.

Crashy_Time

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Not according to MSE Martin:

"The value of prizes paid out is determined by an interest rate, which is currently 1.35%. It usually changes when the Bank of England base rate changes, but can also change depending on prevailing market savings rates, and on Government funding requirements.

The interest rate works like this. If you owned every Premium Bond in existence, the amount won over a year would be equal to 1.35% of what you put in. So very roughly, for every £100 put into Premium Bonds on average, you'd expect a £1.35 annual return.

Yet because of the way the prizes are allocated, the majority of people will win much less than the interest rate anyway. There's a full explanation of why this happens later, but for now you can use the Premium Bond Probability Calculator to see how likely you are to win an amount equal to the interest rate."

Premium bonds seem to be a poor investment, cash ISAs are not much better with a similar derisory interest rate and as far as your third suggestion of a FTSE tracker, I'd be interested to hear what return you'd expect from that without dipping into your capital?

Didn`t you read my post properly? I said you might as well put your money into these things because BTL is a crap investment.

MFW_ASAP

Crashy_Time wrote: »

Didn`t you read my post properly? I said you might as well put your money into these things because BTL is a crap investment.

Why is BTL a 'crap investment'?

Crashy_Time

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Why is BTL a 'crap investment'?

Why is it a good investment?

MFW_ASAP

Crashy_Time wrote: »

Why is it a good investment?

I didn't say it was, I simply stated that some people would 'fancy a punt' on it due to the instability of the stock market (as seen yesterday) and that despite the removal of a tax incentive, a lot of people looking for retirement income will still view BTL more positively than other investment vehicles, therefore maintaining the demand for BTL.

I then went on to point out that an increasing number of people approaching retirement will not have final salary pensions (with a guaranteed income) and may also view BTL as a means to aquire a relatively secure income. You seemed to disagree and suggested three alternatives which you then admitted were useless investments and you then went on to suggest BTL was also a useless investment.

Im waiting for your reasoning as to why BTL is a rubbish investment.

cells

Crashy_Time wrote: »

Thought it was 300,000 the last time you posted (yesterday) They must have been coming over the channel in big numbers last night, all ready to pay any rent the landlord fancies and borrow to the max as well? As this has been going on for years though according to many property bulls, where are the hundreds of thousands living as they wait for their house to be built?

they are cramming into existing stock, which they do not like, and hence are bidding the maximum they can which is why rents and prices are so expensive

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33266792

The "above average" increase of 491,100 from mid-2013 to mid-2014 included net migration adding 259,700 to population growth, the ONS figures show.


there are places where the councils are allowing higher build rates, eg in telford they are building around 1,000 new homes a year and as a result the town is very affordable. 3 bed houses can be had for £100k within walking distance of the tow centre. Go to other places like London which is 50x the population but only builds 20x the number of homes and the story is very different

cells

Crashy_Time wrote: »

Of course the fundamentals of government intervention are what has caused the indexes to stay positive on tiny sales volume, not demand. We will see how many still fancy a punt on BTL now that the goalposts have been shifted a bit.

I truly feel sorry for you as the system is biased against you but in a way you either don't understand or don't want to. The UK is simply building too few homes and as long as that continues the renters who want to be owners will suffer high rents and HPI

I think you do a disservice to renters with your BTLers are fools its all about to crash meme

Crashy_Time

cells wrote: »

I truly feel sorry for you as the system is biased against you but in a way you either don't understand or don't want to. The UK is simply building too few homes and as long as that continues the renters who want to be owners will suffer high rents and HPI

I think you do a disservice to renters with your BTLers are fools its all about to crash meme

But I don`t pay high rent cells, don`t you get it yet? :rotfl: