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Should I just accept my lot? advice needed

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  • ViolaLass
    ViolaLass Posts: 5,764 Forumite
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    Does he work? If the kids stayed with you, he would have to pay you maintenance.
  • carefullycautious
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    I'm sorry if this is not what you want to hear but you should be protecting your children from this emotional abuse.

    How can you say that your children will benefit from 2 sets of parents when the atmosphere is so dire?

    You know in your heart of hearts what you need to do. Yes it's tough but do you really want your children growing up with this learned behaviour?
  • fairy_lights
    fairy_lights Posts: 9,220 Forumite
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    Eveie, the things you are saying in this thread are almost identical to the things you said in the old thread Sailor Sam posted.
    That was three years ago and it doesn't sound like anything has changed. It's pretty obvious you're not happy in this relationship. What are you hoping to hear in this new thread that wasn't said in the old one?
  • fabforty
    fabforty Posts: 809 Forumite
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    eveie189 wrote: »
    .

    My dilemma with them is if they are better with their parents together and just accepting him the way he is or will they be better with me looking after them as a single parent. I am sure lots of single parents do brilliant alone but I don't know if I will be good enough on my own. I just want the best for everyone.

    It's not really a dilemma though, is it? You already know the answer to this and nobody is going to tell you otherwise (if that's what you are hoping for).
    As for wanting the best for everyone, your starting point should be what is best for your children.
  • eveie189
    eveie189 Posts: 301 Forumite
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    Thanks for the honesty guys. I am normally a sane rational person but for some reason I haven't been able to let go. I am finally starting to change in myself so hopefully will have the strength to go through with this. Thanks again
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  • dancingfairy
    dancingfairy Posts: 9,069 Forumite
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    Hi, I'm not actually sure what he is bringing to this relationship, certainly not in a positive way anyway. I get the feeling that you are doing most things you would do on your own anyway but it's just that you are so used to things and that you feel you need the security of having somonelse around.
    I would definitely explore the counselling option. It will help clarify things in your own mind and to identify what resources you have available to you - support groups in your area, other mums at school/on the pta, your friends, the internet etc etc.
    I probably would not bother discussing it with your other half, just because it seems that it is unlikely to change anything (it hasn't worked so far so why would it make a difference now) and it might just cause more tension. I'd work on your confidence and your escape strategy.
    I'd also like to say your only 34. That's not really that old to start again, lot's of people are still single at that age. If you posted about your problems 3 years ago, what's changed? Do you want to still be in this position in 3 years time? What can you do differently? You can't change him but you can change your reaction to things.
    df
    Making my money go further with MSE :j
    How much can I save in 2012 challenge
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  • Wozzie
    Wozzie Posts: 41 Forumite
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    Hi, I'm not actually sure what he is bringing to this relationship, certainly not in a positive way anyway.

    What is she bringing? I feel like I've stumbled onto the private forum of the cast of Loose Women.

    Nobody on here knows his side of the story all anyone is doing is taking absolutely everything this Evie is saying at face value, how can anyone think they can advise her to commit to a major life decision that she on some level seems to be convinced is not good for her based on these comments?

    What I'm reading seems to be vastly different from everyone else. I'm reading a woman who seems to need other people to make her life better emotionally flogging a man, who, after 13 years most likely has developed thicker skin and is no longer capable of pretending to care about the same old !!!!. Not only that she appears to be very underhanded as evidenced by her plotting to just drop a "Oh you know our new home that I used our status to secure? You're not going to be moving in there, expect a letter from the Child Support Agency!" bomb on the dude, and also seems to be pretty god damned shallow as evidenced by her considering DIY odd jobs a reason to keep him around.

    What does she do for him? She clearly seems to need all this stuff from him so what does he need from her? If that answer is (as I suspect) nothing then by what criteria does she expect him to change?

    Maybe I'm wrong but here's what I read:

    "yes I have posted similar questions in the past" - Yet didn't take any of your advice and did nothing to change my situation.

    "he says he will try which he does for about a week then it all trails off again." - Which shows he at least was willing to listen, respect your concerns and tried to change. Which thus far makes him better than you.

    "I do love DH but I am not in love with him anymore and if anything it is more like a parent child relationship." - Translation: I mother him and am then surprised when he attempts to remind me that he's his own man which leads to arguments over the best way to butter toast.

    "We get on quite well and trundle along but there is no passion or any physical contact at all even kissing etc" - Have you put on a !!!! load of weight? Have you gotten that short cropped haircut that only lesbians and women who have given up get? Do you constantly walk around in track bottoms? When was the last time you gave him a casual blowjob? When was the last time you initiated sex? Are you initiating and he's refusing? If so why do you think that is? What might have changed about you to change the way he feels about you? This could be due to anything but you'll only tell us what you want us to know.

    Women want to be treated like they're the only woman on the face of the Earth, and men are told that they need to be supportive so we are. When you get your haircut like Dave Hill from Slade we say "Oh it looks great, it really brings out your shoes!" and when you put on 17 stone we say "I love you no matter what you look like!" and when you take to wearing a shell suit we say "Oh it really looks good on you, it's amazing because on 99.99999% of women that would look cheap and tacky but somehow you really pull it off! It only cost how much? And I bet you got that in a sale didn't you? My god you're so smart, I don't know how I could save us that much money!" and on some level we do mean it. However despite what we may say and want to believe the truth is sexual attraction is a baseless and shallow thing, and as harsh as it sounds if you've become unattractive to him he might not be able to give you the physical relationship you want because men can't just lay back and take one for the team.

    Or he could be cheating, Or he could be gay or he could have developed an STD he's trying to keep under wraps or maybe he's scared that if you have sex he'll end up with another child.

    There are so many things that could be due to, the only people who can truly get to the bottom of that are you and him, but honestly you know if you're not what you could or should be physically and you can't expect him to tell you !!!! you already know. Too many women think men should just accept them and their changes wholesale, and that's fine but if you change a premise of the relationship you can't expect it to not change the way he feels about you.

    "He also will not make any decisions and it drives me crazy hearing 'whatever' to just about every question I ask" - Again no reference to what these questions are, or why you apparently have to make so many that it's an issue.

    I get the impression however that this is a case of you making the decision that you need to do something and then getting annoyed with him not wanting to engage with the decision you've already made. For example:

    You - "I think we'll have Chinese tonight."
    Him - "I wanted pizza."
    You - "No I don't want pizza, so where will we order this Chinese from?"
    Him - "Whatever..."
    You - "WHY DO I ALWAYS HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISIONS!"

    I don't know if it's just been my own personal bad experiences but in relationships I often get the impression that the main thing the woman seems to do is think of !!!! that the man could be doing other than the thing he is actually doing which is the thing he wants to be doing. Like the rubbish, why is that always the man's responsibility? Why is it always an urgent issue to be taken care of that second you deem it's now become an urgent issue? It wasn't an urgent issue when you were watching Eastenders but now that's over it's suddenly of paramount importance I stop what I'm doing to remove this affront to your senses because you've apparently lost the ability to lift things, which is amazing considering when you're down the West End you hump bags of swag up and down Tottenham court road like you're a !!!!ing Clydesdale!

    ...

    Okay dug into my own locker a bit there but I'd be amazed if that isn't the most common !!!! in the world, and if this crap is what you're referring to why the hell would he be happy and engage with the work you're creating for him because you apparently have enough spare time you want to eat into his?

    " has been supportive with my panic attack issues (not that he had much choice)" - Love that casual dismissal.

    "but he is very hard on our 12 year old daughter. In fact at the moment he has not spoken to her for 3 weeks because she told the school that she thinks he hates her." - There is clearly way more to this story. Why is your daughter just randomly telling teachers that? In what capacity does that come up? Why does she think he doesn't like her?

    "I also disagree with the way he threatens to do things" - Which is pretty much the only thing the modern parent has in their arsenal. Why is he put in this position? It sounds to me like he's the one who has been pushed into the role of being the rod to provide discipline whilst you're acting as a lobbyist for your children. That's not the way it should work, if he's the one constantly doing the punishing and telling off which leads to a rift between him and his daughter...

    There is way more here than you are telling us, yes the not eating together thing sounds bad (never realised people still did that) but frankly the longer things go on the more petty they get which is why I believe you're not giving us the full context.

    "Over the years I have accepted him" - No, clearly you haven't.

    "for the sake of unified parenting I have not argued with him about the fact that he shouts at everyone and is too harsh on the kids" - Translation: I've been content to sit back, get hugs and play games whilst relying on him to be a towering authority figure so they'll actually do what I tell them.

    "but I am starting to think that actually I should be standing up for them and maybe I could do better on my own." - Translation: I've started to think that maybe the role he was forced to take isn't even necessary, and that without the person I rely on for discipline they won't actually need any.

    Which may or may not be true, it's all good whilst they're young. When they start breaking into their teens, mixing with other kids and fall in with bad crowds and stuff you might find you miss not having an authority figure around and be surprised at the things you're driven to do. My mother didn't think she needed my dad, a few years later she was telling my step dad that he should hit me if I act up and kicked me out of the house when I was 14 years old because she couldn't cope with me. To be fair when I think back I wasn't even that bad a kid, I was just doing typical teenage !!!!.

    But sure it was all great when I looked like the milky bar kid and didn't want to do anything but draw Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, that !!!! doesn't last forever.

    If you want to change his outlook regarding his daughter just tell him that when kids rebel they rebel against the wishes of authority, and the parents of strippers have two main clich! stereotypes.

    1) Absent fathers
    2) Overbearing fathers

    A subtle reminder of that fact should be enough to give him pause. Also note that 10 year old boys aren't the same as 16 year old boys, when they're 6ft5 and 16 stone you want them to respect you and your opinions and you don't know !!!! about being a man.

    "I am just fed up of worrying about what mood he will be in next." - Then stop worrying about it, just chill the !!!! out and stop analysing everything and he'll probably follow suit.

    "He won't go to relate. He doesn't even want to talk about our problems. He just says he is sick of hearing the same old crap." - Well so far we've learnt that he at least tries to apply criticism where you just get it and do nothing. Also those relate things are only as good as the people who engage with them, if someone doesn't want to be there and doesn't see the point then it will often turn into a huge waste of time and money. All you're doing is inviting a third wheel into a pointless argument that you already know the root cause of and don't want to do anything to change.

    " I think he thinks I should just accept him as he is." - See why earlier I said you hadn't accepted him for who he is?

    Also why wouldn't he expect you to accept him as he is? If you applied that to me I worked very hard and experienced a lot of !!!! to be who I am and I like who I am. If you don't, then !!!! you.

    Most men are pretty secure in who they are as a person, we'd all like an extra couple of inches but other than that we generally wouldn't change much. Often what men want from a relationship is freedom, if you've got a girl who you like and she loves you and you're really into each other but are respectful of each others time and space, for a man that's the best !!!! in the world. The problem is women are always looking to improve !!!!, they're always looking to push things and this at some point will impact everything the man loved about the initial relationship namely his space and his time.

    Thing is women don't start really chipping away at that !!!! until they're tethered to you with something more substantial than their looks and personality, both of which they're looking forward to no longer maintaining.

    "If anyone asks he always says it was me who wanted the kids not him" - A story as old as time.

    "but I know he does love them" - A function of biology, you'd have to be a sociopath to not love your own children... actually even they might have strong bonds with their children because it might tie into the whole ego thing.

    "although his bond with our dd has never been as good as with the boys" - Nope, because he gets boys and doesn't have to be too concerned. The daughter presents a world full of unknowns all bad, if a boy goes out and gets hammered has sex with someone and throws up on the kitchen floor the father has an interesting story for the guys at work. If the daughter does the same nobody must ever known anything that happened ever, sure it's a double standard but those are the breaks when you're capable of creating a human life.

    "I just want the best for everyone." - No, you want what's best for you to be what's best for everyone but nobody around here has a functioning crystal ball.

    At the end of the day do what you want to do, but have the integrity to own that decision. If the kids get upset at you that you're splitting up the family say what you have to say to make them feel better but don't try to put the !!!! onto him and don't expect him to be cool with your decision. Also don't be a complete scumbag about it, don't string him along let him know what you're thinking of doing before you do it.

    Unless of course you think he'll kill you all in your sleep and hang himself, just want to throw in that disclaimer because you never know.
  • ViolaLass
    ViolaLass Posts: 5,764 Forumite
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    Wozzie, I hope letting that out made you feel better.
  • eveie189
    eveie189 Posts: 301 Forumite
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    Wozzie wrote: »
    What is she bringing? I feel like I've stumbled onto the private forum of the cast of Loose Women.
    What I'm reading seems to be vastly different from everyone else. I'm reading a woman who seems to need other people to make her life better emotionally flogging a man, who, after 13 years most likely has developed thicker skin and is no longer capable of pretending to care about the same old !!!!. Not only that she appears to be very underhanded as evidenced by her plotting to just drop a "Oh you know our new home that I used our status to secure? You're not going to be moving in there, expect a letter from the Child Support Agency!" bomb on the dude, and also seems to be pretty god damned shallow as evidenced by her considering DIY odd jobs a reason to keep him around.
    I have no intention of just dropping him in it and will not be seeking any money for the children I would certainly not try to make him pay for my decision. I mentioned the housing list as I know once I have found a house it will take a few weeks to sort things out anyway which will give him time. I would tell him now but after the things he has done in the past (such as making the children walk 2 miles to school in the rain because he wouldnt drive them in "your car" after a disagreement. I dont want to take his hurt/anger out on the children.
    What does she do for him? She clearly seems to need all this stuff from him so what does he need from her? If that answer is (as I suspect) nothing then by what criteria does she expect him to change?
    I have always tried to be supportive and I have changed alot over the years to try and get him to open up. I have also been supportive in his hobbies such as buying him his dream car (twice). I just wanted to make him happy
    Maybe I'm wrong but here's what I read:
    "yes I have posted similar questions in the past" - Yet didn't take any of your advice and did nothing to change my situation.
    I don't want to take this decision lightly and have never wanted to break up the family for my own selfish reasons
    "he says he will try which he does for about a week then it all trails off again." - Which shows he at least was willing to listen, respect your concerns and tried to change. Which thus far makes him better than you.
    He pays it lip service for the sake of getting me off his back I am sure. My biggest issue is that he will not talk to me about how he feels. When he does say I am doing somkething he doesn't like I try to take it on board. I know I am not perfect either

    "I do love DH but I am not in love with him anymore and if anything it is more like a parent child relationship." - Translation: I mother him and am then surprised when he attempts to remind me that he's his own man which leads to arguments over the best way to butter toast.
    I have never wanted to mother him and try to get him to make more of the decisions in the house but he doesnt want to

    "We get on quite well and trundle along but there is no passion or any physical contact at all even kissing etc" - Have you put on a !!!! load of weight? I actually lost 5 stone, it made no difference then I put it back on and neither did that. I asked him if it bothered him. I could cope if it did at least I would know but he says it doesnt When was the last time you gave him a casual blowjob? I used to offer all the time but he isn't interested at all he just pushes me away When was the last time you initiated sex? Are you initiating and he's refusing? If so why do you think that is? What might have changed about you to change the way he feels about you? This could be due to anything but you'll only tell us what you want us to know. The sexual contact dropped off early on, he says he just isnt bothered about sex, I have tried all I can to change this including just leaving him alone and not asking for three months. the result of that was I didnt get anything for 3 months
    Or he could be cheating, Or he could be gay or he could have developed an STD he's trying to keep under wraps or maybe he's scared that if you have sex he'll end up with another child. he knows that wont happen
    "He also will not make any decisions and it drives me crazy hearing 'whatever' to just about every question I ask" - Again no reference to what these questions are, or why you apparently have to make so many that it's an issue.
    anything, he wont even tell me what he would like for his tea, I have to choose for him. I ask what he would like from the shops and he says whatever then moans that we have no food. I ask for help choosing things for the house/kids and I usually get the same response
    I get the impression however that this is a case of you making the decision that you need to do something and then getting annoyed with him not wanting to engage with the decision you've already made. For example:

    You - "I think we'll have Chinese tonight."
    Him - "I wanted pizza."
    You - "No I don't want pizza, so where will we order this Chinese from?"
    Him - "Whatever..."
    You - "WHY DO I ALWAYS HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISIONS!"

    see above, it usually goes
    Me - what shall we have for tea, have you any preferences
    Him - whatever
    Me - do you fancy chinese?
    Him - whatever
    Me - Pizza?
    Him - whatever/COLOR]

    I don't know if it's just been my own personal bad experiences but in relationships I often get the impression that the main thing the woman seems to do is think of !!!! that the man could be doing other than the thing he is actually doing which is the thing he wants to be doing. Like the rubbish, why is that always the man's responsibility?
    I must admit we do have our own "jobs" in the relationship. I get him to do manly things and he expects me to do everything else including the thinking. I don't have a problem with this but the way he decides what he will and will not do doesnt give me much choice. Our roles in the relationship were set by him not me yet he still complains
    " has been supportive with my panic attack issues (not that he had much choice)" - Love that casual dismissal.
    he doesnt have sympathy for people with mental health issues he just gets annoyed that I have these panic attacks/COLOR]

    "but he is very hard on our 12 year old daughter. In fact at the moment he has not spoken to her for 3 weeks because she told the school that she thinks he hates her." - There is clearly way more to this story. Why is your daughter just randomly telling teachers that? In what capacity does that come up? Why does she think he doesn't like her?
    she was having problems at school and self harming. she told the teacher as they noticed her being down. she said one of the reasons was because her dad shouted at her and hates her. I tried to talk to him calmly about this but he thinks swearing and shouting at her is ok and he feels mad that she talked to school about how she feels and what he said. she is no angel but he is overly harsh on her all the time. he wont talk about it though he just thinks he is in the right even though i explained that she hasnt changed because of his shouting

    "I also disagree with the way he threatens to do things" - Which is pretty much the only thing the modern parent has in their arsenal. Why is he put in this position? It sounds to me like he's the one who has been pushed into the role of being the rod to provide discipline whilst you're acting as a lobbyist for your children. That's not the way it should work, if he's the one constantly doing the punishing and telling off which leads to a rift between him and his daughter...
    I discipline my children I just dont feel that screaming and swearing at them or telling a seven year old you will leave him on his own is the right way to go. Like I said he has actually done this sort of thing before (not leaving the kids on their own) so I know he would do it.
    "Over the years I have accepted him" - No, clearly you haven't.
    your probably right I just accepted the situation I was in and that he would never change

    "for the sake of unified parenting I have not argued with him about the fact that he shouts at everyone and is too harsh on the kids" - Translation: I've been content to sit back, get hugs and play games whilst relying on him to be a towering authority figure so they'll actually do what I tell them.
    I used to challenge him early in the relationship. that resulted in a smashed up tv and dints in the car because he was mad. he has never been violent but does push his weight around literally if I want something he does not want me to have and this has been quite scary at times

    "but I am starting to think that actually I should be standing up for them and maybe I could do better on my own." - Translation: I've started to think that maybe the role he was forced to take isn't even necessary, and that without the person I rely on for discipline they won't actually need any.
    I know the kids need discipline and I am the first to admit that through him a have learned how to be not such a soft touch (and yes I have told him this)

    Which may or may not be true, it's all good whilst they're young. When they start breaking into their teens, mixing with other kids and fall in with bad crowds and stuff you might find you miss not having an authority figure around and be surprised at the things you're driven to do.
    I am perfectly capable of disciplining my own children, I don't rely on him for it at all. having an autistic child meant I had to
    If you want to change his outlook regarding his daughter just tell him that when kids rebel they rebel against the wishes of authority, and the parents of strippers have two main clich! stereotypes.

    1) Absent fathers
    2) Overbearing fathers

    A subtle reminder of that fact should be enough to give him pause.
    I have talked to him or at least tried to about this as I have seen what you are saying happen myself but he agrees one minute then disagrees the next

    "I am just fed up of worrying about what mood he will be in next." - Then stop worrying about it, just chill the !!!! out and stop analysing everything and he'll probably follow suit.
    I try not to but when he is in a bad mood he takes it out on all of us
    " I think he thinks I should just accept him as he is." - See why earlier I said you hadn't accepted him for who he is?
    Also why wouldn't he expect you to accept him as he is? If you applied that to me I worked very hard and experienced a lot of !!!! to be who I am and I like who I am. If you don't, then !!!! you.
    thats his view exactly, most of the time but he has made comments over time such as "we both know this went bad long ago" which make me think he may feel differently

    Most men are pretty secure in who they are as a person, we'd all like an extra couple of inches but other than that we generally wouldn't change much. Often what men want from a relationship is freedom, if you've got a girl who you like and she loves you and you're really into each other but are respectful of each others time and space, for a man that's the best !!!! in the world. The problem is women are always looking to improve !!!!, they're always looking to push things and this at some point will impact everything the man loved about the initial relationship namely his space and his time.
    I give him his space and he is free to come and go as he pleases. I encourage him to do his own thing
    At the end of the day do what you want to do, but have the integrity to own that decision. If the kids get upset at you that you're splitting up the family say what you have to say to make them feel better but don't try to put the !!!! onto him and don't expect him to be cool with your decision I am not that insensitive, even if I diagree with him I still try and get the kids to see his side even if he has been a bit harsh. Also don't be a complete scumbag about it, don't string him along let him know what you're thinking of doing before you do it.
    April GC 9th-7th may £0/£320
  • Person_one
    Person_one Posts: 28,884 Forumite
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    edited 11 October 2014 at 5:09PM
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    I wouldn't have bothered even reading half of that OP, let alone responding .

    One thing that does jump out at me is that your OH was just 18 when you got together, and 19 when your daughter was born? That's very young, maybe he was never ready and these are the inevitable cobsequences that were always going to crop up at some point.

    Sorry, I realise that's not very comforting, and plenty of young parents do a fantastic job , but it sounds like he's got stuck in the behaviour of the teenager he was at the beginning of your reationship.
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