Driving & Blind Spot

thescouselander

I'm not convinced a shoulder check is always needed. A driver should be regularly checking the mirrors and they should pick up a vehicle approaching from behind well before it reaches the blind spot. Generally to need to check the blind spot indicates the driver has poor awareness of what's around them.

I guess there are exceptions such as looking for vehicles loitering in the blind spot if they are travelling at the same speed but generally you should know what's around you at all times.

Also, as above if the mirrors are adjusted correctly the blind spot should be very small indeed if not non-existent (depending on the size and design of the mirror).

anotherbaldrick

It is dangerous to be ignorant of the fact that in certain road configurations your mirrors will not pick up traffic approaching in your blind spot and in certain conditions it can be more than a spot ! Take the photo in post no 39, the approach is heavily wooded , both roads are fast traffic and are on arcing curves to a meeting point with little wiggle room before the crunch point . I can assure you as you go down the A31 slip no matter how your mirrors are adjusted they will not pick up the vehicle on the A3 until you are on the point of entry to the other road, this give you about 1 sec to make your decision if you are relying on your mirrors (and bearing in mind it's nothing unusual to have an artic tailgating you)
. A glance over your right shoulder and you live to drive another day.

thescouselander

Yes, there are exceptions, as I said.

colino

I think OP you have just misinterpreted what was said.
When on an advanced course (not IAM) I was continuously asked what was all around me and without acting like an owl, I was expected to know what and where other road users were.
I seem to remember an A1 driver sweeps their mirrors every 11 seconds on average and they "shouldn't" need to take a double take, but there is no law against it and if your changing lane, you always should do the lifesaver.

zagfles

anotherbaldrick wrote: »

It is dangerous to be ignorant of the fact that in certain road configurations your mirrors will not pick up traffic approaching in your blind spot and in certain conditions it can be more than a spot ! Take the photo in post no 39, the approach is heavily wooded , both roads are fast traffic and are on arcing curves to a meeting point with little wiggle room before the crunch point . I can assure you as you go down the A31 slip no matter how your mirrors are adjusted they will not pick up the vehicle on the A3 until you are on the point of entry to the other road, this give you about 1 sec to make your decision if you are relying on your mirrors (and bearing in mind it's nothing unusual to have an artic tailgating you)
. A glance over your right shoulder and you live to drive another day.

Yes there are some dual carriageway entries where you're almost turning left from a side road, I use a very similar Y type junction on my way to work every day, not a dual carriageway but same applies, where it's necessary to look right due to the relative angles of the roads.

My post was more aimed at changing lanes on a motorway/dual carriageway. If you have a car or even motorbike sized blind spot your mirrors are seriously badly adjusted.

Strider590

anotherbaldrick wrote: »

It is dangerous to be ignorant of the fact that in certain road configurations your mirrors will not pick up traffic approaching in your blind spot and in certain conditions it can be more than a spot ! Take the photo in post no 39, the approach is heavily wooded , both roads are fast traffic and are on arcing curves to a meeting point with little wiggle room before the crunch point . I can assure you as you go down the A31 slip no matter how your mirrors are adjusted they will not pick up the vehicle on the A3 until you are on the point of entry to the other road, this give you about 1 sec to make your decision if you are relying on your mirrors (and bearing in mind it's nothing unusual to have an artic tailgating you)
. A glance over your right shoulder and you live to drive another day.

In that situation I would look right ASAP (as soon as the hatch markings start), i'd pick a car, look ahead keeping said car in the corner of my vision, accelerate to meet it's speed and join the gap behind it (or most likely ahead of it). I would certainly not be checking over my shoulder as I was crossing that line into lane 1. IMO, that road is only dangerous if you fail to enter at the correct speed.

Sometimes these slip lanes are a leap of faith, you have to accelerate with every bit of power your car has and make sure your entering at a speed which matches the traffic.

What panics me, is when i'm behind someone who wants to join a 70mph road, doing just 35mph, because they're scared/nervous.
Worse, i've actually come onto slip lanes around a blind bend, only to find some muppet has stopped to answer his phone JUST at the point where you'd be checking over your shoulder.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

zagfles wrote: »

If you can see the side of your car, they are far too far in and you'll have a massive blind spot.

I'd say the check is that you can just see the side of your car, otherwise you cannot orient the view and you may actually have introduced another blind spot between the side of the car and the first objects you can see in the mirror.

So set the mirrors so that the view just skims the side of the car. If a mirror got knocked in a car park and you were not used to checking for that sliver of the car, you might miss that they were badly adjusted. Also, if you have any sort of estate, the view out of the rear view mirror is quite different from a hatchback and you are far more reliant on your wing mirrors to see traffic behind.

By the way, when coming up behind a van, you should be aware that a typical closed in van has very poor rear visibility and you should take account of that as you consider passing them and when they join from a slip road. Van drivers may position themselves at unusual angles at junctions as the visibility to the left is particularly restricted, there is a massive blind spot to the left that mirrors cannot cover, (from say 45 degrees to the rear forward to 90 degrees).

jc808

driving two years

good driver imo, no accidents

nearly got caught out yesterday

inside lane, 3 lane motoway, went to overtake lorry in inside lane, checked over my shoulder and mirrors, went to move and just before i did, a car zipped from outside lane to middle lane.

he was going a fair old speed, just goes to show, you need to check, and even if you think youre certain, its worth checking again.

dont know how i (nearly) hit him - must have been a case of 'looking but not seeing' i guess

Strider590

IanMSpencer wrote: »

By the way, when coming up behind a van, you should be aware that a typical closed in van has very poor rear visibility .

You can also use this to your advantage sometimes if the driver is being a c**k. :cool:

jc808 wrote: »

driving two years

good driver imo, no accidents

nearly got caught out yesterday

inside lane, 3 lane motoway, went to overtake lorry in inside lane, checked over my shoulder and mirrors, went to move and just before i did, a car zipped from outside lane to middle lane.

he was going a fair old speed, just goes to show, you need to check, and even if you think youre certain, its worth checking again.

dont know how i (nearly) hit him - must have been a case of 'looking but not seeing' i guess

You can't account for people who fail to observe what's going on in the other lanes, he should have seen that you were approaching a truck and would soon need to change lane. But equally you needed to be indicating much earlier.

zagfles

IanMSpencer wrote: »

I'd say the check is that you can just see the side of your car, otherwise you cannot orient the view

I can orient the view perfectly well, probably because I've had "properly" adjusted mirrors for nearly 30 years (and never shoulder check when changing lanes - maybe 300k of motorway driving accident free and even near-miss free). My driving instructor taught me to set side mirrors by checking there's minimal overlap with the rear view mirror, ie adjust so that what you can see in the right edge of the rear view is the same as the left edge of the right side mirror, and vv for the left side mirror.

and you may actually have introduced another blind spot between the side of the car and the first objects you can see in the mirror.

Yes but it's much smaller than the blind spot you've eliminated, unlikely to be big enough for a bike, and the reality is nobody will get that close to the side of your car at 70 mph anyway

(and if you're really worried about it all you need to do is move your head right a few inches - much safer than doing a shoulder check - I do this in situations where an overtaking bike might be close for instance on an urban single lane road with queuing traffic which expands to a 2 lanes at traffic lights, and I want to overtake the queue to use the right lane at the lights).

Next time a motorbike overtakes you on a motorway, check that you can always see it, in the rear view, then side mirror then in the side window while looking at the side mirror. Is it always visible? I try to check this in any new car I'm driving to make sure the mirrors are adjusted correctly.

So set the mirrors so that the view just skims the side of the car. If a mirror got knocked in a car park and you were not used to checking for that sliver of the car, you might miss that they were badly adjusted.

Most mirrors have internal adjustments within the frame these days, if the main housing has been knocked it'll generally be obvious.

Also, if you have any sort of estate, the view out of the rear view mirror is quite different from a hatchback and you are far more reliant on your wing mirrors to see traffic behind.

Mine's a 2007 Mondeo and the view from the rear view isn't that good - but it's good enough that I don't need the side mirrors to see what's behind. The side mirrors show me what's to the side.

By the way, when coming up behind a van, you should be aware that a typical closed in van has very poor rear visibility and you should take account of that as you consider passing them and when they join from a slip road. Van drivers may position themselves at unusual angles at junctions as the visibility to the left is particularly restricted, there is a massive blind spot to the left that mirrors cannot cover, (from say 45 degrees to the rear forward to 90 degrees).

Yes vans and lorries are different, or cars where the rear view mirror is obstructed, there you do need the side mirrors to look behind.