hate it when people are shocked

Hermia

midlander81 wrote: »

I just wish that people would see the overall picture and the fact that it is relative to earnings

I don't tend to take earnings into account when people talk about debt so maybe other people don't? I have seen too many high-earning friends with no savings lose their jobs and end up in serious problems very very quickly. I know one couple with a six figure income who both lost their jobs within a month. I wouldn't blame people for not taking your earnings into account.

Think how impressed these people will be when you get on top of your debt!

PenguinJim

If you give the impression of being an organised and sensible person, why wouldn't people be shocked to hear that you used to have a problem controlling your finances? It's not very different from telling people that you used to weigh 120KG, or that you used to have serious problems with drinking or drugs or gambling. Would you be shocked if someone in your office told you they'd lost 40K gambling? Wouldn't you be surprised if someone at your squash club pegged the financial damage of their alcoholism at 40K? (Well, maybe not at my squash club. Heck, that's practically a membership requirement!)

Debt is often a lifestyle choice, a lack of self-control, and 40K suggests that it wasn't unavoidable. There are certainly a couple of people who end up in debt through no fault of their own, but then there are the people who refuse to give up their mobile phones or their TV or their daily takeaway or even their gym memberships (!), and would rather stick their head in the sand and hope the debt goes away.

It's also important to understand that it's all too easy to simply tag debt with a financial value, and to forget any other effects. Just like alcoholism, gambling, drugs, reckless driving, or many other mistakes, there can be serious non-financial consequences. We've seen marriages break up on these forums due to debt; families torn apart. There's a thread somewhere convincing people in debt not to commit suicide. A 40K debt could cause damage like that to many people.

But good on you for taking control of your debt and intending to pay it off. That's excellent. Now... do you really need that gym membership?

Puddylove

I'm shocked enough at my own debt which was around £17k at the start of this year, on an income of £45k +.
I live a relatively simple life, don't have a new car, haven't been on holiday for years, although my luxury is my two horses (they are largely the source of my debt, as I 'loved not wisely but too well' and paid vet bills of around £13k).
Even on a relatively good income to debt, it's been a challenge to repay this (and I'm lucky in that I've never had to default so have access to reasonable credit).
I can't imagine how difficult it is to repay £40k, and if you were my work colleague, I'd be both shocked, and concerned for you.
The fact that you are on a DMP should indicate that this level of debt is not, and should not be viewed as normal.
I take my hat off to you for repaying it, though.

James_B.

midlander81 wrote: »

This got me thinking... is a 40K debt REALLY that unusual these days? I mean, we are normal people and we managed it! I know that debt is all relative but is 40K on a salary of 70K considered 'shocking'?

To me, yes, absolutley, its a very large number.

Saying "But look, we earn a lot of money" actually makes it more surprising (to me), as you can't help but wonder what's happened to allow a couple on good money to get in so deep.

James_B.

Debtfree2018 wrote: »

I think both your comments are judging, why post on debt free wannabe if you are mortified of having any debt Not very Christian at all

What a weird insult. "Christian" does not mean "nice", and many nice people are not Christian.

strawberryblonde

Hi
I would like to say that I have £64000 worth of debt and a household income of £38000.
None of this debt was run up extravagantly-we did not have holidays, fancy cars or designer clothes. They were accumulated through a series of unfortunate circumstances and illness. Once you are in the debt spiral it is extremely difficult to get out of.
We are trying to put things right and in my experience the people that know about it are on the whole very sympathetic. Having always worked, neither of us believed we would ever get into this situation where we have lost our home and now have to account to our creditors for every penny we spend.
I would urge all of you who have no debts to be less judgemental on those who have debts. It could happen to you, no matter how much you might think it won't. It only takes unexpected illness, job loss or another unexpected financial drain to push someone over the edge.
I joined this forum for support and advice, which for the vast majority of the time I receive and I am very grateful for it.

midlander81

PenguinJim wrote: »

If you give the impression of being an organised and sensible person, why wouldn't people be shocked to hear that you used to have a problem controlling your finances? It's not very different from telling people that you used to weigh 120KG, or that you used to have serious problems with drinking or drugs or gambling. Would you be shocked if someone in your office told you they'd lost 40K gambling? Wouldn't you be surprised if someone at your squash club pegged the financial damage of their alcoholism at 40K? (Well, maybe not at my squash club. Heck, that's practically a membership requirement!)

Debt is often a lifestyle choice, a lack of self-control, and 40K suggests that it wasn't unavoidable. There are certainly a couple of people who end up in debt through no fault of their own, but then there are the people who refuse to give up their mobile phones or their TV or their daily takeaway or even their gym memberships (!), and would rather stick their head in the sand and hope the debt goes away.

It's also important to understand that it's all too easy to simply tag debt with a financial value, and to forget any other effects. Just like alcoholism, gambling, drugs, reckless driving, or many other mistakes, there can be serious non-financial consequences. We've seen marriages break up on these forums due to debt; families torn apart. There's a thread somewhere convincing people in debt not to commit suicide. A 40K debt could cause damage like that to many people.

But good on you for taking control of your debt and intending to pay it off. That's excellent. Now... do you really need that gym membership?

Thanks for posting.

I agree with some of your points but feel that the suicide comments are harsh. Sure, it happens but whilst my debt us an inconvenience it would never lead me anywhere close to that. The thing that worries me is that there may be others reading this who are feeling that way.

I don't have a gym membership

getmore4less

Remember some will not count some things as debt even if they have them as they just don't see it..

Mortgage : This one is sort of OK as it is asset backed.

Car loan : a lot don't see these as debts
Car lease : is a commitment to payments so is a debt.
Mobile phone contract : is a debt
etc.

In the extreme zero sum life game we are all in debt till we have earned enough to see our days out.


What really matters in the bigger picture is net wealth and how you manage that.

As well as income there is an age element, when young buying some lifestyle on credit is not all bad, there will be the benefit of access to things, like buying a car that gives freedom of movement and better access to work. Kitting out a house with white goods.....

Over time the reliance on debt should reduce and longer term planning(retirement) need to take over.

The real problem is you create a dependency on having to create income to service living, the debt and the future.

The road to financial freedom is not what you earn but what you spend.

Back to the question,
If you now live a £25k lifestyle on £70k then 40k debt is not that bad, if you live a £70k lifestyle on £70k then £40k debt is a big problem.

Shocked by debts, no takes a lot to shock me these days after years on MSE and the FOOL.

Kate_fixing_it

midlander81 wrote: »

I agree with some of your points but feel that the suicide comments are harsh. Sure, it happens but whilst my debt us an inconvenience it would never lead me anywhere close to that.

How do you know?

I think the point many posters have made is that the future is fundamentally uncertain. Absolutely nobody's job is 100% secure - I'm sure Enron and Barings bank employees thought they were but they simply weren't.

Life has a nasty way of shoving us on our backsides and kicking us while we're down. For those feeling that life is no longer worth living I don't believe that's simply down to debt. There are many other factors and debt can create a perfect atmosphere for those other factors to fester and take over a person's life. The feeling of guilt and shame that debt causes spills into everything.

Personally I've never felt that way but I do know of people close to me that have.

Kate x

Monkeyballs

I thought I'd post again as the this thread has a whiff of one with potential to spiral into something unpleasant...

Rule number one, you're on the Debt Free Wannabe forum here so judgement is not required or requested - that said, I don't feel that any posts so far are being judgmental... They are answering the question with their own opinion but not judging (see the Loans and Credit File forums for that ).

I do however think that an important point has been touched on, the expectation of someone on a lower income is that you don't need credit and have no money worries so it might be a shock to ind out that this isn't the case. I don't think that the social circle is entirely relevant since £70k joint income is nice but not huge, I earn just shy of £25k and started with £19k of debt (mostly gambling) but have friends earning £10k less and others earning £10k+ more.

I don't think PenguinJim has mentioned the Suicide thread to be harsh, just to point out that there is a thread on this site which supplies supportive information for those in debt and feeling there is no way out... There is always a way our...

Anyone working their way out of debt should be proud of themselves for helping themselves, getting into debt is easy but getting out of it... Takes it's toll, it's a journey

MB