Advice with Court Claim received please?

campdave

RMS2 wrote: »

But that is exactly my point. That is between you and Garmin, not you and the buyer (and if it is Garmin, then it's likely to be a GPS rather than satnav). The buyer (and the judge) have no interest about your issues with Garmin and if you attempt to bring them up, he'll (the judge) stop you, because it is irrelevant to the claim.




I can see you heading for a fall, fair or unfair does not come into it, you sold a defective item and are not willing to put the situation right. The only way out of this is, to see if Garmin have supplied the right cable and you have passed it on, but you have admitted that it isn't the right cable.Something sounds wrong about the cable, because one going from the cigarette socket is just a charger and it shouldn't matter. If however he is talking about the cable to the laptop, then that is a different matter, because it may not load the map software that Garmin have.




You didn't mention that you offered to have the item returned (twice), you are moving the goal posts now, do you have this in writing showing that the buyer received a copy of your offer? Otherwise it will be dismissed. Did you offer to pay his return postage and put him back in his original position?


He hasn't hit you with a court claim for 50%, he's taking action as a last resort because you refuse to supply the cable and didn't agree to his offer of £40.


Forget Garmin, forget unfair, forget 50%, forget fluffy puppies and cute kittens. Get him back to where he was, sort the cable or come to an agreement on an offer.


If you do end up going to court (which I think you'll lose), get your facts right about analogue/digital, don't cloud the argument with non issues. Don't bring up things you haven't put in your response (like I offered him a refund twice, but I forgot to mention it) and make sure you have evidence to back it up.


Please don't go into court saying, Garmin blub let me down, not fair blub, not my fault blub, buyer being unreasonable blub, offered him money back but have no evidence blub. And expect some Santa Claus type bespeckled character that says, I know it wasn't your fault, I'll sort it all out, because you're in for a bit of a shock.

A rare example of some good advice on these kinds of thread.

RFW

Excellent advice above. Also don't go into court relying on the claimant telling the truth. You have to prove your case clearly and definitely. Even on this thread you haven't done that.

The claimant probably didn't give you notice of the case, unless you're employing an expensive solicitor then you won't get the case thrown out on a technicality like that. The court will see there was contact made and that the claimant has a case.

If I remember rightly you may get an option to have a telephone mediation before going before a judge. If I were the defendant I'd consider making an offer at that time and save a lot of hassle (a day in court, a possible ccj and a larger liability).

gazfocus

RMS2 wrote: »

But that is exactly my point. That is between you and Garmin, not you and the buyer (and if it is Garmin, then it's likely to be a GPS rather than satnav). The buyer (and the judge) have no interest about your issues with Garmin and if you attempt to bring them up, he'll (the judge) stop you, because it is irrelevant to the claim.

No, you're missing the point. The cable supplied, by Garmin, with the sat nav is the correct cable for the sat nav. The cable is NOT defective, the cable works as it should. The cable is listed on the Garmin website as being the correct cable for the sat nav I sold so I don't get what the problem is with the cable supplied.

RMS2 wrote: »

I can see you heading for a fall, fair or unfair does not come into it, you sold a defective item and are not willing to put the situation right. The only way out of this is, to see if Garmin have supplied the right cable and you have passed it on, but you have admitted that it isn't the right cable.Something sounds wrong about the cable, because one going from the cigarette socket is just a charger and it shouldn't matter. If however he is talking about the cable to the laptop, then that is a different matter, because it may not load the map software that Garmin have.

From what I can work out, the cable supplied has an FM transmitter to receive live traffic updates to the Sat Nav. The cable the buyer wants me to buy for him has a digital transmitter to receive the live traffic updates but the fact is, both do exactly the same thing.

RMS2 wrote: »

You didn't mention that you offered to have the item returned (twice), you are moving the goal posts now, do you have this in writing showing that the buyer received a copy of your offer? Otherwise it will be dismissed. Did you offer to pay his return postage and put him back in his original position?

I don't see how I'm moving the goal posts. The item was sold on Preloved and all messages are logged on there. I made two offers of a full refund:

First offer was the day he notified me that he was expecting a different cable. I offered to refund in full if he wanted to return the sat nav.

Second offer was made in response to his '£40 or legal action' message and I said to send the sat nav back and I said that I expect the sat nav back in the condition it was in when he received it.

RMS2 wrote: »

He hasn't hit you with a court claim for 50%, he's taking action as a last resort because you refuse to supply the cable and didn't agree to his offer of £40.

He paid £200 for the sat nav. He has hit me with a court claim for £99.99 which is 50% of the price he paid for the sat nav. This is also more than he ever requested via email.

RMS2 wrote: »

Forget Garmin, forget unfair, forget 50%, forget fluffy puppies and cute kittens. Get him back to where he was, sort the cable or come to an agreement on an offer.

The only recourse now is I want the sat nav back. He can p*** off if he thinks I'm going to bow to his demands and buy him a cable just because he threw his dummy out of the pram. I was very reasonable when I offered a full refund at the very beginning but he refused it.

tomtontom

What is the difference between the analogue and digital versions of the satnav? If it is the cable, then you need to supply the correct cable.

You're coming across as very stubborn OP - you need to lose the attitude before this gets to court.

gazfocus

tomtontom wrote: »

What is the difference between the analogue and digital versions of the satnav? If it is the cable, then you need to supply the correct cable.

You're coming across as very stubborn OP - you need to lose the attitude before this gets to court.

I'm not stubborn, I'm just getting p'd off with it all. I am being made out to be the bad guy when I have been very reasonable.

Surely, if the buyer isn't happy with the sat nav, it should be my decision whether to pay for a new cable or whether to ask for the sat nav back for a full refund? I'm not a business, I'm a private seller.

In response to your post above, the buyer has not once offered to return the current cable.

The exact phrasing of the offer I made was:

"buying a new cable will leave you with two cables as you will then have the original cable as a spare. Therefore I feel it is unfair that I should bear the full cost of a second cable."

If the buyer had any intention of returning the original cable, he could have responded offering to return the original cable but he didn't. He filed the court claim without any further correspondence.

I am going to send the buyer one last email offering:

1. to return the sat nav for a full refund
2. to return the original cable and I will purchase the replacement.

tomtontom

gazfocus wrote: »

I'm not stubborn, I'm just getting p'd off with it all. I am being made out to be the bad guy when I have been very reasonable.

Surely, if the buyer isn't happy with the sat nav, it should be my decision whether to pay for a new cable or whether to ask for the sat nav back for a full refund?

In response to your post above, the buyer has not once offered to return the current cable.

The exact phrasing of the offer I made was:

"buying a new cable will leave you with two cables as you will then have the original cable as a spare. Therefore I feel it is unfair that I should bear the full cost of a second cable."

If the buyer had any intention of returning the original cable, he could have responded offering to return the original cable but he didn't. He filed the court claim without any further correspondence.

I am going to send the buyer one last email offering:

1. to return the sat nav for a full refund
2. to return the original cable and I will purchase the replacement.

So he has not refused to return the cable, just he has not proactively offered to do so? There is a big difference between the two.

Your new offer to the buyer seems fair, but keep in mind that you will need to cover the cost of postage (in both directions), and you need to get the new one to him in a timely fashion.

campdave

gazfocus wrote: »

No, you're missing the point. The cable supplied, by Garmin, with the sat nav is the correct cable for the sat nav. The cable is NOT defective, the cable works as it should. The cable is listed on the Garmin website as being the correct cable for the sat nav I sold so I don't get what the problem is with the cable supplied.




From what I can work out, the cable supplied has an FM transmitter to receive live traffic updates to the Sat Nav. The cable the buyer wants me to buy for him has a digital transmitter to receive the live traffic updates but the fact is, both do exactly the same thing.





I don't see how I'm moving the goal posts. The item was sold on Preloved and all messages are logged on there. I made two offers of a full refund:

First offer was the day he notified me that he was expecting a different cable. I offered to refund in full if he wanted to return the sat nav.

Second offer was made in response to his '£40 or legal action' message and I said to send the sat nav back and I said that I expect the sat nav back in the condition it was in when he received it.



He paid £200 for the sat nav. He has hit me with a court claim for £99.99 which is 50% of the price he paid for the sat nav. This is also more than he ever requested via email.



The only recourse now is I want the sat nav back. He can p*** off if he thinks I'm going to bow to his demands and buy him a cable just because he threw his dummy out of the pram. I was very reasonable when I offered a full refund at the very beginning but he refused it.

There's little point getting shirty with someone on the internet who is trying to help you. This is stuff that is going to come up in court.

If the bottom line is that you advertised a digital version and the buyer received an analogue version, you're onto a hiding to nothing regardless of if the functionality is the same or not.

gazfocus

tomtontom wrote: »

So he has not refused to return the cable, just he has not proactively offered to do so? There is a big difference between the two.

Your new offer to the buyer seems fair, but keep in mind that you will need to cover the cost of postage (in both directions), and you need to get the new one to him in a timely fashion.

He has not refused to return the cable but I just meant that there was the opportunity there for him to offer and he didn't.

RFW

gazfocus wrote: »

I am going to send the buyer one last email offering:

1. to return the sat nav for a full refund
2. to return the original cable and I will purchase the replacement.

You're playing with legal fire by doing any of that. There's been some good (and bad) advice on this thread, when you agree with a piece of advice it doesn't mean you are both right.

Being annoyed and standing your ground won't help with a court case, they're only interested in what they can see.

I'd be getting my papers together and going to see a solicitor (some offer free initial consultations) or CAB before opening communication with the claimant or filing defence. I certainly wouldn't listen to idiots like me.

zzzLazyDaisy

You have been given some good advice on this thread, but it might hep to simply it.

1 The case will be heard in the small claims court, which means that you should not place too much weight on procedural defects such as failure to send a letter before action/claim. The simple fact is the district judges can simply pass over this point, and usually will where the parties are two ordinary members of the public. So legal technicalities such as this, while valid, are unlikely to help you.

2 The court has two separate issues to decide - liability and compensation.
Liability concerns the simple question - did the item you sent him comply with the advertised description. The answer is no, therefore you are liable. The fact that the reason it did not comply is that you were send a defective model does not concern the court, that is a matter for you to take up with your supplier.

3 The court will then consider compensation. This is where your buyer's duty to mitigate comes in, and if he has over inflated his claim and you can produce evidence of this (cheaper cables from a reliable source) then you have a good chance of persuading the court to order a lower level of compensation.

4 If you succeed in persuading the court to give him less money than he is claiming, this still means you have lost the case (ie lost on liability). This means that whatever the level of compensation finally arrived at, you should still be prepared for an order that you pay his court fees (£25 fee for starting the case and a further fee for the hearing). Also be aware that if the court considers you have acted unreasonably in defending the case, the judge may also award an unrepresented claimant costs for his time at £18 per hour subject to a maximum daily rate which from memory is £90 (though you should check that). In real terms most parties to small claims court procedures do not realise that this 'unreasonable costs order' can be requested, and so it is quite possible that your claimant may not apply - but obviously you can't be certain of that.

In your shoes I would be seeking mediation and hoping to settle this out of court.

Sorry this is not what you want to hear.

Daisy