VCS PCN - Help Needed

yotmon

No wonder VCS don't take any Liverpool JLA cases to court if this is their summary of evidence. I have just read their 7 page witness statement of waffle, which could have easily been condensed to 2 pages. Their whole evidence of contract is "we displayed a sign, so therefore you owe us money ! No ifs, no buts - you owe us money"

Page 4, 17. " It is entirely irrelevant the circumstances or reasons for which the defendant stopped the vehicle at the site. The fact that the vehicle stopped at the site is an acceptance of the terms and conditions."

So we know that they do not accept break downs, but what about health emergencies ? The driver has a heart attack at the wheel, but to avoid incurring a £100 charge, they must continue to drive until they have left the restricted site !

Another good example would be a vehicle collision. Are the drivers allowed to stop and exchange details, or must they continue along the road with vehicle parts being dragged behind them.

Worst of all would be to strike a pedestrian walking out in front of you. Do you have the legal right to drive off, thus not incurring the £100 charge seeing as its a private road, or would this behaviour be frowned upon - probably not in the seedy world of the ppc's !

yotmon

Umkomaas

@OP - now it's your opportunity to put VCS in the dock.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/liverpool-business-park-motorist-wins.html

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5569859

Coupon-mad

AB_Express wrote: »

I had pointed out that I had stopped outside of the red route that they had highlighted in one of their exhibits and I wasn't stopped on double yellows. I also provided the Oxford English Dictionary definition of a road and roadway to support the fact I wasn't stopped on a roadway which the judge also commented on.

Well done you! :T

People can win these at hearings on their own, with enough of a defence, and you and other posters here are proof of that. I am surprised if the Judge thought you'd accepted a contract though and didn't see the relevance of stopping due to a 'minor vicissitude', being not 'parked' (authority - Charles Harris QC in the appeal case of Jopson).

The piece of 'road' where the car had stopped on was pretty much a dirt track that is not much longer than a car that leads to wasteland. The car was pulled over to check an oil leak and the photos on the PCN show the driver bent over looking under the car.

Sounds like a minor vicissitude and excuse for a temporary stop for safety, to me.

How did you find the experience? Very scary and formal - or less formal than you were expecting? Please let others know.

And do ask the Prankster to blog about your success; you can send him a 'Guest Blog' about your case - with date, claim number, parking firm, the court & name of Judge but keeping your surname anonymous, and he'll publish your summary of events, I'm sure.

AB_Express

Thought I would post a little write up of the whole experience.

Before I get started, I would just like to thank all those who have helped.

On the night before, I familiarised myself with my WS and read through VCS / BW Legal’s WS again. On the morning of, got ready as normal and packed all of my WS copies and everything else I had to do with the case. Gave myself plenty of time to get to the court, had a little breakfast close by, re-read my WS and then made my way to court. I arrived a little over half an hour early. There were 4 parking cases on the day, mine was the only VCS, the others were all from the same firm. I had previously looked on the internet for the person who had written the VCS / BW Legal WS so was looking out for them, but they didn’t show. For a brief moment I thought they weren’t going to show and I was going to win by default. It was now about 10.15 and the first parking case was called, not mine. It was round about now that it actually sunk in where I was what I was doing and the nerves started to set in. I’m not really a nervous person and actually get a buzz from interviews and presentations etc. so I thought I would be ok in this situation but it was a different kind of nerves. Got myself together, quick toilet break, got some water and got my head back in the game. I was sat by the window watching the world go by, trying to stay calm, still no sign of the person who I thought would be representing VCS / BW. I then spotted someone looking through some papers, they were a good few metres away and I was sat behind them and as they were flicking through I spotted one of the signs from Liverpool Business Park, game on! Now it was just a waiting game. My case was second on the list so was hoping I would be in next. Not to be. The first case came out back into the waiting area and the next case went in. They came out and I don’t think the defendant had turned up for the third case so the legal rep went back in and was back out shortly. I was up next. The case was called and in I went. Was expecting a small room but it was quite a large court room, extremely daunting. The rep told me where to sit, I sat down, got all of my stuff out and the judge explained what would happen, claimant first and then me. The legal rep I thought did very well, but I guess it is there job so shouldn’t expect anything less really. There was a bit of forwards and backwards over the T&Cs of the sign and once that was sorted it was over to me. I got the impression that the rep didn’t actually know where I had stopped as they kept banging on about red routes and double yellows. Over to me, gulp! Off I went. I started off with explaining why I had to stop. I then pointed out that the piece of land I stopped at was outside of the red route and wasn’t on double yellows. The judge asked me to show them on the overhead map provided by VCS / BW. I took up my evidence too as back up. I was quite clearly outside of the red route. The judge asked me to show the rep too, further confirming my initial thought that they had no idea where I had stopped. Next I pulled out the definition of a roadway and road from the dictionary to further back up my argument that I wasn’t in breach of the T&Cs. The nerves settled a bit as I thought I had done ok up to here. I moved onto the relevant bits from the Jopson transcript, I thought this would have been the clincher. The next part of my defence were the signs themselves, I tried to argue that they weren’t clear and there was no way that you could read and digest all of the information driving by at 30mph. I gave the Beavis sign as an example of what good should look like and went onto say that the signs don’t adhere to the specs in the BPA and IPC code of practice. That was me pretty done. The judge asked the claimant to close followed by myself and he took a moment, which felt like an eternity before they delivered the verdict. I really didn’t know which way it would go. I felt I could have delivered my points better, I said what I wanted to say, it just didn’t come out the way I wanted it too. The way the judge began, I felt I was going to lose. When they agreed that the signs were clear and followed the code of practice I thought I had lost. The fact the signs have the no stopping emblem on them at the top was key in the decision. Next the judge moved onto my points and the fact that I had stopped outside of the red route, wasn’t on double yellows and was clearly not on a road or roadway was enough to swing the decision in my favour. There was another dead-end on the overhead map that was covered by the red route which the judge highlighted. I could have jumped up in the air and high fived the judge but resisted the temptation. They asked me for my expenses, mind went blank, felt a bit stupid as I fumbled around to get myself back together. The rep agreed and off we went.

It was a very weird experience, I’m glad I did it but wouldn’t like to do it again.

Umkomaas

Thanks for comprehensive feedback.

Even though the judge thought the signage clear, did he/she not conceded that whilst it might be clear on a photograph on a desk in front of him/her, when passing at 30mph it would be anything but 'clear'?

And to have stopped in order to have read it would have still seen you in court that day

Coupon-mad

AB_Express wrote: »

Thought I would post a little write up of the whole experience.

Before I get started, I would just like to thank all those who have helped.

On the night before, I familiarised myself with my WS and read through VCS / BW Legal’s WS again.

On the morning of, got ready as normal and packed all of my WS copies and everything else I had to do with the case. Gave myself plenty of time to get to the court, had a little breakfast close by, re-read my WS and then made my way to court.

I arrived a little over half an hour early. There were 4 parking cases on the day, mine was the only VCS, the others were all from the same firm. I had previously looked on the internet for the person who had written the VCS / BW Legal WS so was looking out for them, but they didn’t show. For a brief moment I thought they weren’t going to show and I was going to win by default.

It was now about 10.15 and the first parking case was called, not mine. It was round about now that it actually sunk in where I was what I was doing and the nerves started to set in. I’m not really a nervous person and actually get a buzz from interviews and presentations etc. so I thought I would be ok in this situation but it was a different kind of nerves. Got myself together, quick toilet break, got some water and got my head back in the game.

I was sat by the window watching the world go by, trying to stay calm, still no sign of the person who I thought would be representing VCS / BW. I then spotted someone looking through some papers, they were a good few metres away and I was sat behind them and as they were flicking through I spotted one of the signs from Liverpool Business Park, game on!

Now it was just a waiting game.

My case was second on the list so was hoping I would be in next. Not to be. The first case came out back into the waiting area and the next case went in. They came out and I don’t think the defendant had turned up for the third case so the legal rep went back in and was back out shortly.

I was up next. The case was called and in I went.

Was expecting a small room but it was quite a large court room, extremely daunting. The rep told me where to sit, I sat down, got all of my stuff out and the judge explained what would happen, claimant first and then me.

The legal rep I thought did very well, but I guess it is there job so shouldn’t expect anything less really. There was a bit of forwards and backwards over the T&Cs of the sign and once that was sorted it was over to me.

I got the impression that the rep didn’t actually know where I had stopped as they kept banging on about red routes and double yellows.

Over to me, gulp! Off I went. I started off with explaining why I had to stop.

I then pointed out that the piece of land I stopped at was outside of the red route and wasn’t on double yellows. The judge asked me to show them on the overhead map provided by VCS / BW. I took up my evidence too as back up. I was quite clearly outside of the red route.

The judge asked me to show the rep too, further confirming my initial thought that they had no idea where I had stopped.

Next I pulled out the definition of a roadway and road from the dictionary to further back up my argument that I wasn’t in breach of the T&Cs. The nerves settled a bit as I thought I had done ok up to here. I moved onto the relevant bits from the Jopson transcript, I thought this would have been the clincher.

The next part of my defence were the signs themselves, I tried to argue that they weren’t clear and there was no way that you could read and digest all of the information driving by at 30mph.

I gave the Beavis sign as an example of what good should look like and went onto say that the signs don’t adhere to the specs in the BPA and IPC code of practice. That was me pretty done.

The judge asked the claimant to close followed by myself and he took a moment, which felt like an eternity before they delivered the verdict. I really didn’t know which way it would go. I felt I could have delivered my points better, I said what I wanted to say, it just didn’t come out the way I wanted it to.

The way the judge began, I felt I was going to lose. When they agreed that the signs were clear and followed the code of practice I thought I had lost. The fact the signs have the no stopping emblem on them at the top was key in the decision.

Next the judge moved onto my points and the fact that I had stopped outside of the red route, wasn’t on double yellows and was clearly not on a road or roadway was enough to swing the decision in my favour. There was another dead-end on the overhead map that was covered by the red route which the judge highlighted.

I could have jumped up in the air and high fived the judge but resisted the temptation. They asked me for my expenses, mind went blank, felt a bit stupid as I fumbled around to get myself back together. The rep agreed and off we went.

It was a very weird experience, I’m glad I did it but wouldn’t like to do it again.

Well done again! :T

Thanks for the report. I will link this in the NEWBIES thread as a guide to what to expect on the day.

AB_Express

So, today was the deadline the court had given BW Legal / VCS to pay me my expenses / loss of earnings etc. and guess what, no cheque.

Any advice?

Coupon-mad

I would start by writing to the court Judge by name and telling him/her that the Order from the Court has been ignored. The Judge might take a dim view and order VCS to comply.

Others may add more advice.

Ultimately you could send a bailiff to VCS' offices which bumps the costs up for them even more!

AB_Express

Just spoke to the court about the deadline having passed and they have pointed out that the Judge has put on the order the defendant owes the claimant, didn't even realise. Also the date is 2016, not 2017.


Do I write to the Court?