Paypal Warning

jhobhouse

I would advise anyone using Paypal to stop now. please read on:

I recently lost in a ‘Chargeback’ case on my Paypal account. I am still fighting this case as I believe not only am I not at fault but the fraud is a result of the combined incompetence and loopholes in the Paypal / Ebay system. To summarise briefly, I sold a camera on Ebay for £772, the buyer payed by Paypal and once the money had cleared into my Paypal account the buyers decision was to come and pick up the item in person, which they did. Soon after I received an email from someone in the USA claiming to be the owner of the Paypal account I had been fraudulently paid from. I tried to recontact the buyer without success. I then received emails from other sellers on Ebay who were having trouble with the buyer. I passed all this information on to both Paypal and Ebay expecting some sort of action on this very serious issue. Nothing was done – it seems Paypal and Ebay are happy to ignore fraud taking place on their sites as long as the money keeps rolling in.

Since then despite my protests Paypal have reclaimed the money from my account putting my balance in the negative. I phoned Paypal but was told it was impossible to speak to the resolution centre, however the representative I did talk to told me that under no circumstances could Paypal charge my credit card or bank account for the negative balance – I would have to log in and action that myself in order to keep using the account. They have gone back on their word and charged my credit card. The total they have taken from me including their charges is £817.58

To cite an analogy, if my credit card is stolen and someone spends £200 on it in a supermarket and I report the theft, the supermarket don’t get forced to repay the £200. They, as the seller, are not at fault in the same way I am not. The fault lies with those who let the fraud happen.

Paypal say the following on their website:
‘In a dispute over a chargeback, the decision is ultimately made by the credit card company and PayPal cannot control the outcome.’

Not only is this a sad statement of their shirking of responsibility, but I feel it does not apply to my case, where not only had the funds cleared, but more importantly I had done all I could to alert them to the fraud taking place and they did nothing. I cannot seem to find out who Paypal are regulated by.

Throughout the experience I have received nothing but template emails in response to my detailed emails which included requests for them to call or email me personally. This lack of personal interest in a case which has put me into a debt I will not be able to clear for some time has upset me a great deal.

If anyone has any advice or has been in this situation i would be very grateful....

maninthestreet

you might find this website useful:


http://www.paypalsucks.org.uk/

eyelinerprincess

You should ALWAYS take cash on collection when someone collects an item. It looks like you've been subject to a scammer that hacked into the paypal account and probably went on a nice spending spree.

goshdarnit

jhobhouse wrote: »

charged my credit card. The total they have taken from me including their charges is £817.58

I cannot seem to find out who Paypal are regulated by.

Complain to your credit card and get the money paypal took back. Its an unauthorised transaction that paypal have done. Dont take your paypal out of the negative balance, and inform your bank to prevent paypal raiding that.
Paypal will get a few companies to harass you for payment of this money, harassment for debt is illegal in the UK, so inform the companies of that in writing. Don't whatever you do, repay this money. Paypal has never taken anyone to court for this sort of 'debt' and it can't affect your credit rating.

Paypal, although now a Luxembourg company, are still regulated by the FSA in the UK.

From https://www.paypalobjects.com/WEBSCR-475-20070720-1/ua/GB_en_GB/ua.pdf

14. Disputes with PayPal
14.1 Contact PayPal First. If a dispute arises between you and PayPal, our
goal is to learn about and address your concerns and, if we are unable to do so to your satisfaction, to provide you with a neutral and cost effective means of resolving the dispute quickly. Disputes between you and PayPal regarding our Services may be reported to Customer Service online through the PayPal Help Center at any time, or by calling the customer support telephone number located on the PayPal WebSite(s).

14.2 Financial Ombudsman Service. You may contact the UK Financial
Ombudsman Service and escalate a claim against us. You may obtain
information regarding the Financial Ombudsman Service at
http://www.financial–ombudsman.org.uk.

14.3 Governing Law and Jurisdiction. This Agreement and the relationship
between us shall be governed by English law. For complaints that cannot be
resolved otherwise, you submit to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the English courts arising out of or relating to this Agreement or the provision of our Services without prejudice to your right to also initiate a proceeding against PayPal in that context before the competent courts of and in Luxembourg.

faerie_girl

had a similar problem last year.
Boyfriend bought a PSP but didnt like it so after a month or so he sold it on ebay. The buyer wanted it to be to another country (can't recall which) everything when through paypal okay. got good feedback from the buyer.

Then over a month later got a letter from paypal saying wer had recieved fraudulent funds and saying they were taking the money from my boyfriends bank acount to repay someone elses account which the money was transfered from. They virtually accused us of some sort of scam and e-mailed them a copy of a reciept we found (even though this was almost two months after the psp was sold) we deleted all the e-mails and address we sent the item too. The reciept was not the correct one with a recorded delivery code and said we were not allowed a refund as we didnt comply with the T&C with sending recordered delivery. (we did we just through it again)
Paypal say it was tough S**t basically.

so we did some research found some else who had sold an item to this guy and the same had happened. only he had this guys address that it was sent to and a number. We did some digging and found he had a business address in florida. told paypal all of this and they didnt care.

They knew there was a scam going on. we had contact numbers, addresses.

like previously mentioned they only care about the money coming in

patwa_2

Hi, sorry to hear about all this, but I can sympathise although my loss was nowhere as high as yours and fortunately the CC company covered it.

But to answer your point about not using Paypal, sadly we have no choice - in the sense that eBay have brainwashed everyone into thinking Paypal is so safe and secure (for the scammers ) that people are unwilling to use cheques in case they're cleared but they never get their goods or BACS because, well who wants to give their bank details to a complete stranger?

And not everyone can afford to use expensive processing gateways and go independent, even if you could get buyers to trust that it was legit.

Hope you get things resolved and keep on fighting.

H.

marleyboy

I dont know much about PAYPAL im afraid, ive never had a reason to use them. But as far as I can see, if PAYPAL say the money has cleared with them, its their problem, surely thats what PAYPAL is all about, once cleared through them, your covered. Unless we are now being told, a PAYPAL a/c is no different to a cheque.

babybimbles

Paypal are rubbish!

I had a buyer do a chargeback on me for £123.50 (so again not so much of a loss compared to yours). She said that someone had hacked into her account and bought the dress, despite the fact that she and I had been in communication almost everyday since she bought the dress - long story, she had to pay for the dress twice and cancel the first payment as I couldnt accept it. A month later she sends me a message saying she has received it and then I get a chargeback!! I sent the items via RM Signed for but paypal still said this wasn't proof it was delivered to the buyer as there was no proof of signature!! I told them that I had two messages from her saying she had sent the dress back and needed to know what my address was so she could double check!!

Have I got my money back??


NOPE!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Im still trying to fight for it!

Good luck to you!

soolin

There are two types of paypal chargebacks, firstly for item not received which is why ALL items over £34 MUST be sent trackable. It is there in the terms and conditions that we sign up for when we choose to take paypal.

The second chargeback, and the one that applies here is for fraudulent use of card. Again adhering to the paypal rules about sending to a confirmed address and using trackable postage would have given you a claim againat paypal.

The anti paypal sites are full of people who have not read the very basic terms that paypal impose and are not very useful. To use paypal, or indeed any site safely you MUST know what you are doing. Scammers will target those new users or naive ones who don't understand how it works, and this is what probably happened here. The fact that you allowed collection for paypal item means you have no comeback at all against paypal.

To be safe when using paypal goods must be sent to a confirmed address, and to stop a chargeback proof of delivery must be obtained. Any seller who does not follow those basic requirements will be targetted by scammers. For anyone using paypal who are unsure how to protect themselves hang out on the ebay forum for a while as paypal threads are posted daily, some good and some bad, but they do enable sellers to be warned of loopholes in the paypal seller protection scheme so we can adjust our selling techniques accordingly.

Dave_Brooker

soolin wrote: »

The anti paypal sites are full of people who have not read the very basic terms that paypal impose and are not very useful. To use paypal, or indeed any site safely you MUST know what you are doing.

The OP seems to have been charged an extra £50 or so by paypal, is this an illegal penalty charge as it would be from a high street bank?

Dave_Brooker

jhobhouse wrote: »

I would advise anyone using Paypal to stop now. please read on:To cite an analogy, if my credit card is stolen and someone spends £200 on it in a supermarket and I report the theft, the supermarket don’t get forced to repay the £200. They, as the seller, are not at fault in the same way I am not. The fault lies with those who let the fraud happen.

Card fraud is always sponsored by retailers.

That said you paid a fee to paypal for the safe and secure transfer of funds, someting that they don't seem to have done properly....

Sadly many people assume that paypal is the only way to pay and get paid on it's owners website ebay...