First plunge with Investment trusts

Norderney

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I've been following this trust for a while. But remain undecided. What do you find appealing if I may ask?

I assume that they've taken a sizable hit on their holding in Rolls Royce. Which goes to show even professional managers get exposed to the unforeseen.

Caledonia Investments is a rather unusual investment trust. It is split into 4 parts and actually owns some companies outright. They are keen on businesses that are strong cash generating. But also take a long term view to investments.

They have increased their dividend each year for the past 48 years, which is quite a good record. Similar to City Of London which has increased its dividend for the past 49 years.

According to Morningstar.co.uk the share price has performed ok over the past few years - 2010 21.5%, 2012 15.93%, 2013 26.83% and 2014 24.75%. Yes it's had a few bad years 2011 -26.49% and 2015 +4.48%.

It has about 4% exposure to China mainly via the investment in China Today.

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

I see the title of this thread "plunge" is very apt at the moment.

Thrugelmir

Norderney wrote: »

Caledonia Investments is a rather unusual investment trust. It is split into 4 parts and actually owns some companies outright. They are keen on businesses that are strong cash generating. But also take a long term view to investments.

They have increased their dividend each year for the past 48 years, which is quite a good record. Similar to City Of London which has increased its dividend for the past 49 years.

According to Morningstar.co.uk the share price has performed ok over the past few years - 2010 21.5%, 2012 15.93%, 2013 26.83% and 2014 24.75%. Yes it's had a few bad years 2011 -26.49% and 2015 +4.48%.

It has about 4% exposure to China mainly via the investment in China Today.

Family owned and controlled was my concern. Unlike other investment trusts they cannot buy back the shares to narrow the discount against NAV. As would then effectively have to take full control.

badger09

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

I see the title of this thread "plunge" is very apt at the moment.

What took you so long afos?

talexuser

badger09 wrote: »

What took you so long afos?

Because no one paid any attention to post 34? :rotfl: :rotfl:

takesyourchances

talexuser wrote: »

Murray International? I topped up a grand in for each grandchild a couple of months ago looking at a 15 year timescale (in their Mum's ISA). It would be nice if it started to show some upturn in the next couple of years, if not I'll have to rethink sticking with it.

I am going to top up on Murray International, I am buying for the long term hold and hopefully in 15 years time your grand kids will get a nice return on your investment for them.

In 15 times year we won't be thinking of market movement today, so I will take advantage and buy in at 20% less than I did before and at a less premium and I will reinvest dividends until such times as I decide to take them from this portfolio.

bowlhead99

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

With the markets the way they are you will definitely experience the title of your thread. A plunge.

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

I see the title of this thread "plunge" is very apt at the moment.

talexuser wrote: »

badger09 wrote: »

What took you so long afos?

Because no one paid any attention to post 34? :rotfl: :rotfl:

AFOS is a troll who doesn't seem to understand much about investing but just wants to get herself heard. Typically her comments within a thread are followed by a follow-up a few posts later in complete contradiction to what she has just posted, and if you query it she will just say 'yes, exactly!' because one of her posts was right. So in some sense it is refreshing that she has actually given the same message twice in a row without revisiting the thread in the intervening 15 months to change her tune back and forth.

If you were to take the comment from 13 October 2014 seriously, that you were going to experience a 'plunge' you would have dumped your holdings of ITs that week. Graphed below are two UK-focussed ITs I held at that time. The UK market has been pretty dodgy over the last 15 months hasn't it? Let's watch the rollercoaster below!



Oh wait a moment, they didn't plunge - in fact they didn't lose more than a percent, and are now up 15-25%.

One of the reasons for choosing EDIN among the two examples was because it was one that AFOS had been talking about a year earlier when she dumped it out of fear in October 2013 because she heard Woodford was leaving. It promptly delivered about 5% in the subsequent year to October 2014 before its 20%+ in the period since.

AFOS mentioned in another thread recently that she has given up using investment funds or investment trusts and holding for the long term because she is retired now, and this means she'll probably die before reaching the long term. As such, she says she now just daytrades FTSE stocks via CFD which is more exciting. Not really someone from whom you'd want to be taking advice on the merits of an investment trust portfolio.

bigadaj

I think you're being a bit harsh on afos, more comical than trolling.

To be fair her approach of posting contradictory comments and then selectively choosing which one to highlight in retrospect is a common trend, there are thousands of analysts and journalists maintaining that approach all of whom profit far more, and are far more dangerous.

bowlhead99

That's true, there are some parts of the media which will gleefully say they called something right even when they also called it very wrong at pretty much the same time. There's also people publicly pumping and dumping / trashing certain stocks or markets for their own goals - happens all the time in the media between brokers and journalists and analysts. There are people who are out to make money for themselves or their friends or their firm by appearing to be respectable and providing opinions far removed from their true beliefs.

Still, the reason I'm harsh on it is that some BS lighthearted posts are in danger of being taken seriously by newbies, and as a community we get to decide what sort of posts get viewed with credibility, even if we can't control what people say in other forms of media. So there shouldn't ever be a problem calling someone out on their nonsense.

There's a fine line between a comedy post that trolls for some lighthearted reaction (nobody is going to seriously sell off their portfolio because someone with a sheep avatar told them to do it) and an overplayed joke that gets old fast. I'm never going to 'report' a harmless post to a moderator, but I'll happily pick them apart to amuse myself.

Norderney

Well I'm finding the current market quite nerve wracking. I've not sold anything YET on the basis we don't know when it's going to hit bottom. As a number of people have said you have to be careful not to sell at the bottom and start buying back when the market has recovered.

I've been investing since about 1985 and have seen a number of market corrections over the years. My head tells me just to ride it out and not to panic into selling, but it's not always easy in markets like this to sit on your hands and do nothing.

Having said that I am continuing to invest monthly into my SIPP with HL investing into Fundsmith, Woodford Equity, Finsbury Growth & income, Perpetual Income & Growth, Murray Internation and Schroder Oriental Income. So at least I'm picking these up at better prices.