Not the Registered Keeper or Owner

Coupon-mad

I agree with HO87. Why would you leave yourself open to harassment from the most litigious PPC out there? Use their email [EMAIL="enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk"]enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk[/EMAIL] to simply give PE the name and address of the person you believe was the driver ... and tell that person to read the Newbies thread here, so they can see how to win at POPLA - do NOT let them ignore this as PE sue people, who don't appeal - yet we ALWAYS beat them at POPLA.

So easy to get them off your back. I can see why you want to take the stand you are taking but the DVLA records may well not help.

Umkomaas

Not sure that this PE CM. PE has been mentioned by other contributors as a 'for example', however advice to 'name the driver' is the most pragmatic way forward for the OP and will get shot of this from his 'in box' soonest.

The_Deep

OP, I disagree with both of the above posters who think that you should help the PPC out.

Firstly, you do not know who the owner was when the event occurred. The person to whom you sold it could easily have sold it on, and to name that person may well be a breach of the DPA.

So the PPC may send you a few threatening letters, so what, send some back. If they 'phone you, put the 'phone down.

No judge will mark you down if you tell the PPC two/three/four times that you sold it and that they should re-apply to the DVLA for the name of the current RK. You may well have been regitsred by the DVLA as the registered keeper at the time of the event, but you were not the legal owner. I have known the DVLA to take three weeks to update their database.

Full disclosure would be necessary if the car was involved in a hit and run, but this was an alleged breach of a civil contract, a contract which had nothing to do with you.

If you want to play hardball with a PPC go ahead and do it, do not heed belt and braces wearing nimsies on internet fora.

Umkomaas I am puzzled. The OP was not there, how does he/she know who was driving?

jkdd77

The OP cannot name the driver, as he/she cannot know that the person to whom he/she sold the vehicle was actually driving; indeed, it is none of the OP's business, since it was no longer his/her car to lend at that point.

Therefore, the advice to "name the driver" is, IMO, erroneous; indeed, an incorrect nomination would not satisfy the PoFA requirement in any case.

Presumably, the sale documents (assuming the 'Word document' referred to was signed by both parties) have the date of sale on them, and this should be sufficient to rebut the presumption that the OP was the keeper, even if he/she was the RK, which is itself debatable.

The OP has already done everything he/she can in telling the PPC who the keeper was; this is more than he/she was obliged to do.

Since the OP was neither the driver nor the keeper he/she cannot appeal to POPLA/ IAS either, so, IMO, should now sit tight and ignore everything except actual court papers.

Umkomaas

grenjs wrote: »

We are both members of an owners club. He is aware of this situation. I have his permission to pass along his details to the PPC if necessary.

But that isn't the point. All correspondence from them so far has been aggressive. Demands here and demands there. I don't like being pushed around in such a way.

I spoke to them on the telephone and explained the situation. I was told I "HAD TO" write to them as "it is company policy". I personally couldn't give a s--t for their company policy. Their attitude has riled me.

If they had been a bit more polite, then I would have been more accommodating.

Sounds crazy and maybe it is.

grenjs wrote: »

I can assure you 100% that at the time, I was not the registered owner or keeper. That title had been signed over to the new owner and keeper 24 hours previously. He as in fact on his way home when this happened.

I am waiting the confirmation notice from the DVLA where this can be proved beyond doubt.

The_Deep wrote: »

OP, I disagree with both of the above posters who think that you should help the PPC out.

Umkomaas I am puzzled. The OP was not there, how does he/she know who was driving?

Advice was based on above statements; it was not for the purpose of 'helping out the PPC', but one of helping out the OP! Which, presumably, was his main reason for posting here in the first place.

Have you read the whole thread, or just jumped in with your usual 'helpful advice' to the great unwashed?

bazster

The OP doesn't like the PPC's attitude and doesn't want to be pushed around by them. I can understand that. If his response to their impertinent demands for proof is to tell them to FRO then that is a perfectly valid position. He's already told them he had sold the vehicle and they are now effectively accusing him of lying, so why the hell should he dance to their tune?

If it were me I would, for insurance, obtain a witness statement from the buyer stating precisely when he purchased the vehicle, and then ignore everything the PPC does short of a proper LBCCC or court papers. At that point he can tell them he has a witness statement proving he sold the vehicle, and when. He can't be accused of being obstructive or unhelpful, because he's already engaged with the PPC and told them, truthfully, that he had sold the vehicle. Not his fault if the PPC chooses not to believe him.

Seems to me to be a clear case where the application of cojones is indicated instead of the craven timidity so often recommended here.

Guys_Dad

You sold the car and when you get the DVLA documentation, you can prove it.

As said, POFA requires the registered keeper to name the driver or get landed with liability. You were NOT the keeper on the day in question and you do not know who the driver was genuinely.

If the PPC really wanted, they could ask the DVLA and if there is a conflict in their association's agreement with the DVLA, that is hardly your fault.

Just make sure that your last written communication with them states that you do not, as yet, have the paperwork from the DVLA and if they agree to cover your costs, you will send them a copy when you get it.

Your Genuine pre-estimate of costs include,
telephone calls,
stamps,
stationery
photocopying
your time (minimum 30 minutes @£10 per hour)

Upon receiving that sum in advance, you guarantee to send the information.

Of course, that will only prove you sold the vehicle as claimed, not give them the name and address of the new owner and, if they are unable to double-enquire as they state, it is no good to them.

If on the other, they can double-enquire, then they don't need any further input from you, do they?

The_Deep

Have you read the whole thread, or just jumped in with your usual 'helpful advice' to the great unwashed?

Yes I have read the whole thread, and I am satisfied that I have fully understood it, although I have doubts whether you have.

I will repeat so that there is no room for error, your advice to the OP to name the driver is wrong.

however advice to 'name the driver' is the most pragmatic way forward for the OP

the OP was not there he/she cannot be sure whom that person was.

Now, instead of rushing head first into arguments which you cannot win, and throwing out smart-arsed insults, why not study this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_holes

and act accordingly

The_Deep

Seems to me to be a clear case where the application of cojones is indicated instead of the craven timidity so often recommended here

I wish that I had said that

esmerobbo

When does the "Keeper" status change? On a V5c I have here is states I acquired
the vehicle on 24-10-12 but the Docref is 30-10-12