Log Biomass Boiler System

villabadger

Hi

There are several threads on here regarding Pellet Biomass systems but nothing much about Log Biomass. So, have any of you installed such a system? If so, can you give me a rough idea on your system size, amount of logs used, approx cost of installation etc? I have ball park prices for a boiler, thermal store and controls etc but wanted to get a feel for likely install/labour costs. Now the RHI is here I expect that it is a licence to print money!

Any reliability/performance issues? Good support from your supplier?

Any recommendations for Devon suppliers would be gratefully received.

Thanks

Robwiz

I looked at installing a log biomass boiler this time last year. The cost of installation are about the same as for pellet boilers (£4k-£5k) which seems high for the hours of work involved. The installers I spoke to tried to dissuade me from a log boiler in favour of a pellet boiler. For some reason, they were saying that a log boiler only makes sense if you have your own supply of free wood. I disagree – briquettes are available around the same cost per tonne as pellets and anyone who has used a wood burning stove will have no problems lighting a log boiler once a day.

When I researched this, I came upon a satisfaction survey that showed that owners of log burners had fewer problems and were more satisfied than owners of pellet boilers.

The first golden rule of renewable heating seems to be choose your installer with care. Someone local, with good references is best because it's a 20 year relationship for servicing and maintenance. Lots of sob stories about non-local installers never returning to sort out problems. The second golden rule is get lots of references from the installer's customers – visit, look at the work, ask about reliability and quality, teething problems and snags. The third golden rule is, if the installer is good, take his advice on product choices. You don't want a situation where he turns round and says 'well if you'd gone for the one I recommended you wouldn't have this problem'.

I couldn't find anyone local enough with good references so haven't invested in a wood boiler yet.

villabadger

Hi Robwiz

Thanks for your reply. I've been researching a new boiler system for a few years and it makes sense to actually do it now due to the RHI payments. Will be glad to get rid of my ancient oil boiler!

I have access to a small area of woodland so I should be ok for a few years. Looking at some case studies it does get a bit mind boggling when you see pictures of some of the log stores that people have. Still got to be a better deal than getting ripped of for oil every winter!

I will be getting quotes sorted soon but, as an engineer, I have a 'need' to fully understand the technical side of things before I make any commitments! It annoys the hell out of my wife! I'm annoyed that I just don't have the experience with biomass or thermal stores and, therefore, I have to put my trust in a third party. Like you, I agree that decent support is going to be required which is why I'll be looking for a local company. There is a good company just down the road but I know their prices are going to be at the top end and beyond my budget.

Anyone else installed this type of system?

Thanks

Smiley_Dan

We got through 4 cubic metres of logs last year and that was just evening heating. You must have a lot of space to store logs.

villabadger

Smiley_Dan wrote: »

We got through 4 cubic metres of logs last year and that was just evening heating. You must have a lot of space to store logs.

That sounds like a much better deal than using oil. I have read elsewhere that some people use as much as 10-12 cubic metres of logs annually so I am assuming that type of useage. Still, it is always good to get real feedback.

Thank you

Smiley_Dan

Well obviously it depends how much energy you require too. What kW rating is the boiler? Our stove is 12kW. How much space heating requirement do you have? You can use that to work out the amount of logs required (ish) in tonnes and then work out the volume (ish). See http://www.woodfuel.coop/logs-or-briquettes.html

This is also a good chart to give you a rough idea of what you're paying per kWh: http://www.coedcymru.org.uk/firewood.html

Also just found this, not sure how useful: http://www.dunsterheatltd.co.uk/newtowood.html

On the subject of comparing cost with oil, I have found it's only when you purchase at a special rate that it becomes cheaper. For example, I purchase felled wood from a local tree surgeon at about 1/4 of the normal price of "seasoned" (yeah right) logs. Have to season it myself, but at least it gets properly dry. When you purchase from the local log man I'm pretty sure it's more expensive than oil (especially with oil at a lower price currently).

Obviously if you have your own woodland that's cheaper still

villabadger

Thanks Smiley Dan.

The first link is very interesting and does a good job in pushing briquettes, which is food for thought for when my wood supply runs out. I have a small copse to clear which I am hoping will take a few years to use up.

I anticipate a system size somewhere between 40-60kWs as I have a 3 storey house so it will be a bit of guesswork as to the amount of wood needed. However, in my case, it will definitely be cheaper than oil as the old boiler used to burn through it like it was going out of fashion! If we had the heating on like most people would do then it would easily use 25 litres per day.

I need to get a new EPC done to determine the current heating and water demand.

Cheers

captainhindsight_2

From Spring 2015 if you want to use you own supply of wood you will have to register yourself on the 'biomass suppliers list' as a 'self-supplier'.

See here for more information.

However I would recommend pellet or chip boilers. As you can install a hopper and it can automatically feed the boiler as and when required and like oil or LPG you can have bulk deliveries 2-3 times a year and just forget about it.

(also if you are going to self supply you can get your own chipper)

Based on a 40-60kW boiler I would recommend looking at wood chip boiler, as this is much cheaper than pellets. The fuel delivery equipment is more expensive but it more than pays for it's self in fuel savings.

In regards to installers, I would choose a boiler of your choice contact the UK distributors of that boiler and they will recommend you to a local installer.

I would recommend ETA or Frolling boilers as they are the best on the market, so if you call Innosol or Spec Flue they will be able to advice you on a installer local to you.

The installer is as important as the boiler you choose, because many boiler don't work because they are not fitted correctly.

Also the heat demand on the EPC may vary from the heat demand indicated by the installer but remember it's the figure on the EPC that is used to calculate the RHI.

villabadger

Thanks captainhindsight, very useful information.

I hadn't considered other biomass options as I have some trees to get through but you make a good point. The pending new rules for self supplier look like another layer of bureaucratic nonsense that might be best avoided.

Regarding the the actual boiler, the 2 makes you mention are on my list of possibilities along with Treco's Guntamatic.

A question on EPC's......I have read that the RHI domestic tariff is limited to 45kWh so does this mean that this is the largest boiler that can be fitted to be able to make a claim? If I fitted a 60kWh boiler could I not make a claim at all even though it is still a domestic system? If this is the case, why should you be penalised for needing a large heating system?

Thanks

matelodave

The RHI is dependent on the amount of heat you need to heat your house and hot water, not on the size of the boiler.

As they have to be installed by an MCS approved installer the boiler has to match the heat demand - you can't just bung a big one in and claim for it - it's the heat requirement as specified in the EPC.

AFAIK you have to have the EPC/GDA done after the new heating system is installed - those more knowledgeable will be able to advise you better - otherwise have a good search round the Ofgem site.

villabadger

matelodave wrote: »

The RHI is dependent on the amount of heat you need to heat your house and hot water, not on the size of the boiler.

As they have to be installed by an MCS approved installer the boiler has to match the heat demand - you can't just bung a big one in and claim for it - it's the heat requirement as specified in the EPC./QUOTE]

I agree that the payments are based on the total demand listed in the EPC but I have read that the domestic tariff is limited to 45kWh boilers.

I have used several calculators to work out each room's BTU value and then converted the total amount to kWhs. The calculators have given me values between 43 and 45kWhs. So, if a supplier slightly over specs my system (especially as I may want to heat my basement in the near future) and I install a 50 or 60 kWh boiler then would this still qualify? If not, then this seems strange to be penalised for having a large house to heat. Or can I still claim for the 45kWh amount?

Thanks