Economists Urge Scotland to Vote No......

.string.

Shakey - the House of Commons has a very large majority of English MPs and that ain't going to change regardless of how the numbers come up in the party competitions. SNP MPs may like to play the Me Me game to an adoring SNP membership but it won't work so well in Parliament when the needs of the whole UK are paramount.

Cut out the pompous nonsense, you're no slouch yourself.

You never answered my question regarding Devolution and what was missing from the "vow" of enhanced devolution and what is now on the table.

.string.

Generali wrote: »

Oh yeah, I'm all about open commons on here. Unless there's money in it of course.

IIRC, everything we write on here becomes the copyright of whoever Martin sold out to.:money::money::money::money:

I think you have the copyright - in the T&C it says:

"You own any copyright in the text that you post to our Forum. However, when you post text, you expressly grant us a perpetual, unlimited free licence to republish that text on our Site and to redistribute/make available and/or sell that text in print or electronic form anywhere in the world as part of an edited compilation or otherwise. We may automatically track certain contextual links in your Forum posts, whether through Skimlinks or through our own technology."

robmatic

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I do have to ask what you think is going to happen if Labour/Tory get round about the same amount of seats.. but not enough to form a majority even with Lib Dems.. and the SNP is the only party that will bring the numbers up ?

I think it's a fair question to ask. Given that it's one of a few a possible outcomes to the next election.

Funny how the rhetoric has changed from "we need to leave the UK because Westminster is an undemocratic abyss where it's impossible for Scots to make a difference"...

ruggedtoast

robmatic wrote: »

Funny how the rhetoric has changed from "we need to leave the UK because Westminster is an undemocratic abyss where it's impossible for Scots to make a difference"...

They don't know what they are talking about, or what they want. It's just an endless rambling, open narrative based around resentment and selfishness. And the people who propagate it aren't exactly Scotland's rocket scientists, to say the least.

Tromking

.string. wrote: »

Shakey - the House of Commons has a very large majority of English MPs and that ain't going to change regardless of how the numbers come up in the party competitions. SNP MPs may like to play the Me Me game to an adoring SNP membership but it won't work so well in Parliament when the needs of the whole UK are paramount.

Even if the SNP are the kingmakers in the next Westminster parliament, I`m struggling to see what the price of that deal would be for the Nationalists, or more importantly what Labour is prepared to give without it being politically damaging.
The fear of course is that the more parochial Scottish voting patterns become the more it will become a big Ulster type thing in Westminster.What price then the rise of sectarian politics in the mainland UK.

IveSeenTheLight

Tromking wrote: »

Even if the SNP are the kingmakers in the next Westminster parliament, I`m struggling to see what the price of that deal would be for the Nationalists, or more importantly what Labour is prepared to give without it being politically damaging.
The fear of course is that the more parochial Scottish voting patterns become the more it will become a big Ulster type thing in Westminster.What price then the rise of sectarian politics in the mainland UK.

Actually that's quite insulting.

I'm an SNP voter but in no way do I sectariate

Sectarianism, according to one definition, is bigotry, discrimination, or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, class, regional or factions of a political movement.

Please refrain from suggesting that the SNP are Sectarians

.string.

Nice to see you back (seriously I mean that).

Reverting, however, to norm, I will just observe that Shakey could do with reinforcements.

I can't say I associate the SNP with sectarianism, although I do think Scotland is a house divided by their efforts. v the English, Glasgow versus the rest, Patriots against quislings and anti-patriots (as some would have it).

However, leaving the SNP aside for a moment, is there growing sectarianism in Scotland today?

.string.

Returning to the actual subject of the Hamish's thread, there are signs that one of faults of the SNP, that of its flaky and misleading approach to economic, of going to become an election liability.

The refusal of the SNP to accept the spirit of the Referendum and their strategy to actively try to sabotage the instrumentation of extended Devolution is prolonging uncertainty in the business world - see here. resulting in a slow-down of investment and persistent talk of major elements of the financial sector relocating south.

It an obvious tactic of the SNP to cry wolf and beggar the Scottish economy all with the aim of claiming that the wicked Westminster is still shafting the Scots.

But actually the problem is not Westminster, it's the SNP who are creating the uncertainty.

Voting for the SNP will ruin the Scottish economy damage Labour's charge to form the next UK Government and do sod all for furthering the spirit of the decision taken by the Scots in their Referendum.

Tromking

Politics in Scotland is a lot more febrile than anywhere else in the mainland UK at the moment. Two UK party leaders have had to run and take cover from Scots in the recent past don't forget.
Much has been made of the recent surge in SNP support in the central belt, with some commentators suggesting that those from Irish catholic tradition are disproportionately turning toward the SNP now. If true that it is a development the SNP are going to have handle delicately.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Shakey - the House of Commons has a very large majority of English MPs and that ain't going to change regardless of how the numbers come up in the party competitions. SNP MPs may like to play the Me Me game to an adoring SNP membership but it won't work so well in Parliament when the needs of the whole UK are paramount.

Cut out the pompous nonsense, you're no slouch yourself.

You never answered my question regarding Devolution and what was missing from the "vow" of enhanced devolution and what is now on the table.

Of course the numbers aren't going to change. But the Tories needed the Lib Dems in order to form a government last time round. If there's another hung parliament and the SNP are the ones with the numbers needed. Then what next is the question. You can't form a government without a majority. And in order to form a majority, you need MP's.

It will all look very different if recent polls stay the same come May. If Scotland were to elect a majority of SNP MPs the rest of the Union cannot ignore that force. If a large group of SNP MPs were part of a Parliament with no majority party then the SNP could be in a position to decide who if anyone did govern,and to demand a constitutional price for their support.

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2014/11/19/what-happens-if-the-snp-do-well-in-the-may-2015-election/

Please note the above comes from John Redwood MP's blog. Not anything nationalist. I think he knows the score. Are you disagreeing with him ?

Ah the Smith Commission. Underwhelming, and described by someone as a 'pick n mix' of stuff Westminster was willing to give away, rather than any real extensive new powers. The income tax one, without any further control over others, is generally agreed to be a bit pants.

The proposals to hand control of income taxes to Scotland, but not the full range of taxes like national insurance, wealth taxes, oil and gas revenues and so on, is a transparent fiscal trap.


Labour will now dare the SNP to live up to its social democratic principles and "tax the rich", knowing full well that the burden will fall on the diminishing pool of younger, middle-earning voters. Future Scottish governments will be forced to finance their policies by increases solely in income tax, which is the most politically sensitive, inflexible and above all avoidable tax in the fiscal armoury...


..But without access to borrowing powers and the full range of taxation, this is extremely difficult to achieve. The Scottish Government cannot even allow increased immigration from Europe to fill the tax gap now that the UK Government is trying to choke off free movement within the EU and halt immigration from outside it.
David Cameron says controlling immigration is the paramount issue in UK politics. Not in Scotland it isn't. We need more immigration. The Scottish Government could be forced into the kind of retrenchment we see in Eastern European countries under right-wing governments. Without borrowing powers it will have to run balanced budgets with little to spare.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/power-over-income-tax-only-will-doom-scotland-to-a-downward-spiral.25879072

There are loads of other critiques and articles on it online. All you have to do is google them and perhaps dig a bit deeper than screaming populist newspaper headlines.

I did think you were a little pompous designating Labour Scottish MP's as worthy of election from Scotland to Westminster, but that SNP one's won't count, or are to be ignored somehow (as if their constituents wishes on who they vote to represent them doesn't matter).. As long as we both know that's not going to be the case.