Economists Urge Scotland to Vote No......

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Glad to see you back. TBH I assumed you'd gone off in a huff.

Still got the blinkers on of course. What the current episode shows is that an independent Scotland would have been utterly dependent upon a single source of income and this is a rather graphic example of what will go wrong if Scotland gets independence.

No I haven't been off in a huff.. just enjoying my gorgeous new grandson . I only ever pop in here now and again to lob a grenade in. You'd have no-one to debate or to correct you on Scottish/SNP issues/financial implications with otherwise.

You really think Scotland is dependent on one source of income ? Really ? Nothing else at all ? Oil and that's it ?

I think the blinkers may be yours.

Shakethedisease

antrobus wrote: »

Of course it is. This is The Debate House Prices & the Economy Board , what did you think it is for?

But since you think it is pointless, why get into it yourself? Why not just leave those who are interested get on with, and go and do something more useful instead, like have a cup of tea?:rotfl:

Aah a sexist. Why don't you have a cup of tea ? You took the time to answer my pointless post, pointing out the question was hypothetical and pointless after all. *curtsey's deferentially after putting the kettle on*

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Does it matter? I was illustrating the point that Salmond's dream is built on a cloud not the practical realities of the real world. Ranks along side Browns claim of abolishing boom and bust as a faux pas. Salmond and his successor Sturgeon now face a difficult challenge. As they've got to come up with a alternative plans as to how Scotland can finance itself if it were independent.

I've just taken the time earlier today to explain exactly why I don't think there will be another independence referendum anytime soon. Did you bother to read it ?

Salmond's dream is over.. but that doesn't preclude things from drifting along that way due to other circumstances. They don't need to 'sell' anything. Sturgeon will go for a gradual approach building on the support from the referendum and the latest polling where the SNP seem to be gaining, rather than losing support. I don't think that was supposed to happen. But it has, and I think the other parties have been very wrong footed and confused by it all. Scottish Labour especially.

EVEL will split things even more. As will Tory and some Labour back benchers threatening to derail the further powers offered by the Smith commission unless it occurs. Trident will be a contentious issue, and if the SNP do really well in the next elections, the backlash in England against the SNP will be such that Sturgeon won't have to 'sell' anything at all. Nothing. A fair proportion of England's electorate and Westminster MP's will do it ALL for her. While she's not even in the room ( she's an MSP, not an MP ). All they have to do is push for 'further powers' rather than independence. Those elsewhere as above mentioned will surely do the rest, rising up in protest over the very idea and desperate to bar Scottish MP's ( any ) from being a full and contributing part of the UK government. No Scottish PM's or Chancellors ever again.

Don't worry over any more Scottish independence referendums for a while. I can assure you the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon certainly aren't.

chewmylegoff

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Aah a sexist. Why don't you have a cup of tea ? You took the time to answer my pointless post, pointing out the question was hypothetical and pointless after all. *curtsey's deferentially after putting the kettle on*

Not sure how things work north of the border but down here tea drinking is pursued on a strictly equal opportunities basis.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Salmond's dream is over.. but that doesn't preclude things from drifting along that way due to other circumstances. They don't need to 'sell' anything. Sturgeon will go for a gradual approach building on the support from the referendum

Which is lovely and all but completely misses the point.

The main issue for the majority of No voters (backed up by polling data) is their concern that the economic case for separation simply does not stack up.

Sturgeon will now take the SNP ever further to the left. Which will widen that gap.

The only way for the SNP to actually get the numbers to work is to slash public spending or massively boost the tax base through growing the economy.

Both of which require policies much, much further to the right than the SNP can deliver without losing much of that newfound support from Labour.

Sturgeon is between a rock and a hard place.

The current oil price woes only demonstrate just how badly the SNP miscalculated. Don't forget they needed oil at $113, and production levels to reverse their decade-long decline, and a number of other unlikely circumstances, to even come close to making their economic case work.

They completely ignored the repeated statements from oil professionals that those assumptions were unrealistic.

Events have proved the professionals right and the SNP wrong.

What little economic credibility the SNP may have started with has now been completely squandered.

They'd have been better off telling the truth from day one.....

That Scotland could survive as an independent country, but that it would require massive cuts to public sector jobs, services and benefits to get the books to balance.

chucknorris

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Not sure how things work north of the border but down here tea drinking is pursued on a strictly equal opportunities basis.

Real men don't drink tea in Scotland, the only acceptable non alcoholic drink is Irn bru (in a dirty glass of course), to insinuate otherwise is a declaration of war.

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Which is lovely and all but completely misses the point.

The main issue for the majority of No voters (backed up by polling data) is their concern that the economic case for separation simply does not stack up.

Sturgeon will now take the SNP ever further to the left. Which will widen that gap.

The only way for the SNP to actually get the numbers to work is to slash public spending or massively boost the tax base through growing the economy.

Both of which require policies much, much further to the right than the SNP can deliver without losing much of that newfound support from Labour.

Sturgeon is between a rock and a hard place.

The current oil price woes only demonstrate just how badly the SNP miscalculated. Don't forget they needed oil at $113, and production levels to reverse their decade-long decline, and a number of other unlikely circumstances, to even come close to making their economic case work.

They completely ignored the repeated statements from oil professionals that those assumptions were unrealistic.

Events have proved the professionals right and the SNP wrong.

What little economic credibility the SNP may have started with has now been completely squandered.

They'd have been better off telling the truth from day one.....

That Scotland could survive as an independent country, but that it would require massive cuts to public sector jobs, services and benefits to get the books to balance.

Away Hamish. Better Together was adamant that the oil industry and jobs would only be safe with a No vote. 'Broad shoulders' and 'Pooling and sharing'.... How's that all working out ?

Shakethedisease

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Not sure how things work north of the border but down here tea drinking is pursued on a strictly equal opportunities basis.

I'm sure it is. However, am guessing many other posters here aren't patronised to the max and told to go and have 'a nice cup of tea' whenever their opinion differs.

But I'll take back the sexist comment.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm sure it is. However, am guessing many other posters here aren't patronised to the max and told to go and have 'a nice cup of tea' whenever their opinion differs. ...

Hey! You were the one telling everyone that there was "no point" in having this debate. How patronising was that?:)

If you genuinely thought there was "no point" in having this debate why are you engaging in it?

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Salmond's dream is over..

On that point I disagree. People that spend a lifetime focussed on a single idea. Rarely give up. It's the whole driving force behind the SNP. As in political terms there's little actual difference to the Labour party.

While independent powers make for good media coverage. The practicalities are somewhat different. Arguably decisive in nature. There's no magical solution to the current economic woes. Nor are the current crop of politicians in anyway equipped to deal with them. As global events will dictate policy. Not regional or national self interests.