Economists Urge Scotland to Vote No......

Generali

chewmylegoff wrote: »

The trouble with that theory, which is fairly obvious, is that if Cameron had "Lost Scotland" it is pretty unlikely that he would have been fighting the next election as leader. I don't believe politicians are altruistic in the sense that they would sacrifice their own career for the greater good of the party.

My view is that Cameron cares far more about his own career and legacy than the short or long term future prospects of his party. I don't think he would be prepared to sacrifice himself and be remembered as a failed prime minister in order to pave the way for a Boris led government.

It's not unknown: look at Lord Howe's resignation speech for example.

CLAPTON

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

The problem the DC has is that he may not have the backing of his backbenchers over the promises made for Scotland.

You have to say well played though as they have backed Labour back into a corner.

They have been in a coalition where the Lib Dems are much derided and now have put Labour into what seems as an impossible position.

I guess their main concern may be the UKIP uprising.

seems absurd, but actually yes UKIP is the hope (fear) for a fairer UK for all the people rather than small group.

chewmylegoff

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

The problem the DC has is that he may not have the backing of his backbenchers over the promises made for Scotland.

You have to say well played though as they have backed Labour back into a corner.

They have been in a coalition where the Lib Dems are much derided and now have put Labour into what seems as an impossible position.

I guess their main concern may be the UKIP uprising.

I don't see that Labour are in an impossible position. The Tories are not in a position to "solve" the West Lothian question in this parliament; Cameron has said as much. It seems the Tories will have a manifesto pledge to at least prevent Scottish MPs voting on devolved issues (presumably applying to NI and Welsh MPs as well although could get messy given devolution to Scotland, Wales and NI is not uniform).

This is only an issue for Labour if the Tories win. I can't see Labour backbenchers insisting that Miliband provides his own solution to the issue as it is a boon for Labour. I also can't see Miliband needing to sell "English votes to English issues" to Labour voters given they would rather have the Labour Scottish MPs involved. Miliband would be better served by running on a "hated Tories and their bedroom tax out" ticket.

Gangaweed

I love how labour is already weaselling out of the campaign promises.

Typical!

ruggedtoast

If Labour wins a majority from outside England, but when it comes exclusively to voting on English issues they are facing a tory majority, isn't that just democracy?

In a sense this is my nightmare scenario because I cant envisage any scenario I would vote Conservative, but Labour's gameplan here seems to be that they won't accept devolution for England because English people might not vote the right way.

Not exactly endearing me to them to be honest.

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

The problem the DC has is that he may not have the backing of his backbenchers over the promises made for Scotland.

You have to say well played though as they have backed Labour back into a corner.

They have been in a coalition where the Lib Dems are much derided and now have put Labour into what seems as an impossible position.

I guess their main concern may be the UKIP uprising.

From what I've read, I think Tory backbenchers are opposed to buying off Scotland with English money.

It looks to me like the Tories want Parliament to serve a dual purpose in future as both a British and an English Parliament. TBH it seems like a pretty good idea to me: England is such an overwhelming proportion of the UK that it doesn't really need devolution and I think it could actually be quite dangerous.

The next few months will be really interesting: it's not just the Scots that have been politically engaged by the devolution debate, I think that the English have too. They're waking up to the fact that the other nations in the Union get a lot more spending per head, and that money basically comes from their pockets if they live in London or the South East, the only two regions that pay substantial amounts into the pot on a net basis most of the time.

CLAPTON

all sorts of haste make for unintended consequences


how would a two part parliament work


if the 'English' bit is say tory and the UK was labour how would a vote of no confidence work? each could vote the other down and make parliament ineffective.


the current system isn't broken and doesn't need fixing
too late now the usual unthinking morons without a thought trough plan will make things worse : it will lead inevitably to the breaking of the union for the detriment of all




the Barnett formula was a disgraceful labour party stunt to buy scottish votes and has caused un-necessary suffering amongst many poor people : Barnett ought to be ashamed.

Gangaweed

CLAPTON wrote: »

the current system isn't broken and doesn't need fixing
too late now the usual unthinking morons without a thought trough plan will make things worse : it will lead inevitably to the breaking of the union for the detriment of all




the Barnett formula was a disgraceful labour party stunt to buy scottish votes and has caused un-necessary suffering amongst many poor people : Barnett ought to be ashamed.

It is broken. Why should Scottish and Welsh MPs be able to vote on English only matters?

It is undemocratic.

Personally I don't see why the English should bribe the Scots into staying in the union with higher spending. Give them the power to manage their own affairs, the only way they will learn is if they try their Socialist nirvana and it fails miserably.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Generali wrote: »

London or the South East, the only two regions that pay substantial amounts into the pot on a net basis most of the time.

NE Scotland is the same.

Aberdeen responsible for 25% of Scottish GDP, has 4% of population, gets 2% of spending.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH