Economists Urge Scotland to Vote No......

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

In fairness, the day after the end of a 2 year long campaign which has been marked by a thumping victory is exactly the time for triumphalism. I'm sure you'd be !!!! a hoop if Yes had won.

So, the day after 2 million voted for no, you as a non voter wish to embark on one-upmanship over the 1.6 million that voted yes.

That's not what was agreed for in the Edinburgh agreement.

Generali wrote: »

Tomorrow is the time to look to the future and resolve some of the issues that this campaign has brought to the fore,

No, today is the time to start looking forward.
Part of the better together pledge was to start the process today, not tomorrow.

Generali wrote: »

I think this campaign has shined a light on some parts of the British Constitution that would have been better staying in the dark.

I am buoyed by how engaged the Scottish Electorate were in this referendum and hope that politics throughout the UK can maintain this momentum and engagement.

purch

Personally I think it is very worrying that 1,617,989 people in Scotland want to leave the UK altogether.

They don't just want more power for the Scottish Parliament, they actually want to leave the Union.

It should be nothing to be pleased about, for either side.

IveSeenTheLight

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

23.7% more people voted no than yes.

I asked lets not get into statistics as you could equally say that 19.18% fewer people voted for Independence.

Of course you would choose a higher statistic to allow yourself to be triumphant

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

28/32 regions voted No.

And in context, the regions are not a equal representation of the electorate, This is why we saw the first five or so smaller councils No lead balanced out when the Dundee City region came in.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The separatists got a well deserved kicking last night.

So to put this in context, for every 9 voters, 5 voted No, 4 voted Yes

You think that this qualifies as giving the 4 a well deserved kicking.

I feel sorry you have such a negative self centered mindset and glad you do not align with the politicians from both sides who have agreed we need to move on and work together.

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Let's not get into statistics of this as you could quite easily pronounce that it only needs 9.59% of the No voters to change their mind if the Union does not deliver on it's promises

When you consider it only needs a 9.59% change from no and there was 15.41% non voters, there could easily be an appetite for change if the promised are not kept and the "grey" vote moves on.

Let's accept that for now, the electorate of Scotland have made their choice and we all need to work together to make Scotland and the RoUK stronger going forward.

I can't see the turnout getting much larger than it was. Weren't old people voting Yes disproportionately? I thought they were but that might say more about my brain than older voters.

I can't see the UK granting another referendum for a very long time.

Graham_Devon

Nick Robinson summed it up for me stating along the lines of...

2 weeks ago, anyone in the BT campaign facing these results would be panicking and asking how on earth it could be that near 50% of the Scottish population would actually vote yes. Instead, they are breathing huge sighs of relief. Never did they imagine the vote could be this close.

For me. Yes, it's a NO vote. But who thought 4 weeks ago it would be this close?

I personally think there's more relief going on than a sense of victory.

The rest of us in the UK should be thanking the Scots though for having the gumption to get up and do this. They've taken an absolute kicking from us, but have also set change in motion, for all of us.

wotsthat

Generali wrote: »

England doesn't want more devolved powers though and nor does Wales AFAICS.

It's the next political bandwagon. Any problem can be resolved by increasing the numbers of politicians and throwing (other) people's money at it.

The Nigel Farage show was on R4 this morning already trying to steer the agenda. He said anything the Scots get should be replicated across the rest of the UK - it'll be a utopia where everyone gets out more than they put in.

He was pondering whether England should have a First Minister - I wonder who he has in mind.

Interesting times ahead. The Labour Party must be gutted by the vote - not this one but the one where they voted in the wrong brother. He's been on the sidelines and eclipsed by Darling and Brown. Gordon Brown!

michaels

Funnily enough some could still see this as a victory for the Nats, they have moved the playing field so that although they 'lost' they have a promise of DevoMax (lite) which they would never have acheived without having the referendum. If I were Salmond I would actually be feeling quite smug about what I had acheived.

Generali wrote: »

England doesn't want more devolved powers though and nor does Wales AFAICS.

What is interesting for me is that Tory backbenchers are threatening to resolve the West Lothian question. That'll throw a spanner in the works for Labour Governments!

Not sure that is true, the current Tory plan seems to be offer the socts as much Devo as the want on the condition that for everything devolved the west Lothian 'solution' is that only English MPS vote on it. you can see how this makes sense in electoral arithmetic terms for the Tories, how it will work on the ground who knows. It is basically federalism.

Immediate questions appear though such as how do you have seperate tax and spend policies but a common national debt? Do you need a second English Executive? Etc Etc

I think it needs its own thread, I will start one this evening if none else has.

ash28

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

It will be important to at least reprimand these people, but really a margin error of 10 votes over the Glasgow ballot will not have made a difference.

When I voted last night, I noticed my wife's name had not been scored off as they scored mine.
I informed them that my wife had already voted.

No doubt there could be human error in there as well, so no point in jumping to conclusions and trying to imply it was one side of the vote.



There is links from when Sky zoomed into a a pile of votes with the Yes on top of a No pile.

There is another where a counter lifted 1 vote off the no pile and swapped it with two from the yes pile.

As I said, I'm sure there are human error instances so late through the night, but I doubt these are significant enough to affect the result.

I watched the BBC coverage of the referendum.....so no filming of ballot papers.

Filming ballot papers is not allowed
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.electoralcommission.org.uk%2F__data%2Fassets%2Fpdf_file%2F0009%2F141984%2FLGEW-MAY-RO-Part-E-Verifying-and-counting-the-votes.pdf&ei=dOgbVOquIaG7ygOviYCQCw&usg=AFQjCNGdIGtZL1X7fwpWFKsQPsdJ_3XJxA&bvm=bv.75774317,d.bGQ

Make sure that the media are aware of any restricted areas and procedures – for example, ensure that camera operators are aware that they must not overview sensitive information (such as close-ups of ballot papers) or obstruct count staff.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CFQQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.electionsscotland.info%2Femb%2Fdownload%2Fdownloads%2Fid%2F52%2Fcount_timing_for_2014_scottish_independence_referendum&ei=be4bVOOvCeHqyQO294DoAw&usg=AFQjCNFFDyV1LLK8RkOkanM0qCJNW1uCCw&bvm=bv.75774317,d.bGQ

On top of that there are accredited observers and of course there are spoiled and suspect ballot papers....according to the referendum counting rules there would be Yes ballot papers + No ballot papers + doubtful ballot papers - a mix of Yes and No ballot papers that will be adjudicated. So someone could quite easily see Yes and No ballot papers together in one pile......and there would be nothing sinister going on.

And to be honest whenever I have voted and they look you up on the list, I
watch to make sure they mark me off the list.....in fact the last time I voted it was only when everything had been done that I was a given a ballot paper.

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

So, the day after 2 million voted for no, you as a non voter wish to embark on one-upmanship over the 1.6 million that voted yes.

That's not what was agreed for in the Edinburgh.

No I don't want to engage in one upmanship but this is starting to make me want to frankly.

I'd be quite surprised if the Edinburgh Agreement had a clause in it about not celebrating!

lostinrates

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Let's accept that for now, the electorate of Scotland have made their choice and we all need to work together to make Scotland and the RoUK stronger going forward.

This.

I think that we need to put away the 'for now' for a while too really. But ultimately if it soothes troubled waters I'll go with it.

I can understand some people are devastated, disillusioned etc.

What's important now is that people don't transform this in to expressions of anger with others or divide within communities and that we look forward not to ' patch things up' but to make situations more tenable and acceptable for all, reduce this social divide and rascism which has been expressed both ways and celebrate what's good about the respective areas, combined cultural wealth and enjoy commercial and political strength union gives.