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Distance Selling Consumer Contracts - My Rights

flyinggizmo
Posts: 27 Forumite

Hi. I recently ordered a set of daytime running lights for my Ford Focus from a Company that supplies and fits them to your vehicle at home. I phoned them to confirm the position I wanted them ( 10 holes have to be drilled ) and they told me that was ok. However they use a third party Company to fit the lights and they informed me that the area I wanted to fit them was a structural area and therefore not possible ( below headlights ). The fitter told me the ONLY area these particular lights can be fitted is a small area below the foglights and so I refused the installation. The seller is now trying to tell me that because I rejected the job, I am now in effect in breach of contract and they have ignored me since I requested a full refund of the goods which are untouched in my possession. I received the goods 12 days ago and the fitter called at my house 7 days ago. Interestingly the fitting Company were completely in agreement with me that they are not fit for purpose to be fitted in the position I asked for in my telephone query 2 days before ordering the goods. If anyone can give any advice before I threaten them with legal action through the small claims court I'd appreciate it. Many thanks ..... flyinggiz.
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If your argument is that they are not fit for purpose then you are wanting to reject the goods under the Sales of Goods Act as such rather than messing about with any distance selling regs.
The natural difficulty may be substantiating that they had advised that these items were appropriate for your needs.
You could cancel them under the Consumer Contracts Regulations which gives you 14 days to cancel and a further 14 days to return. You may find that this gets messy though as the price was part goods and part service and the service element possibly has lost the right to cancel as the service was already initiated.0 -
flyinggizmo wrote: »Hi. I recently ordered a set of daytime running lights for my Ford Focus from a Company that supplies and fits them to your vehicle at home. I phoned them to confirm the position I wanted them ( 10 holes have to be drilled ) and they told me that was ok. However they use a third party Company to fit the lights and they informed me that the area I wanted to fit them was a structural area and therefore not possible ( below headlights ). The fitter told me the ONLY area these particular lights can be fitted is a small area below the foglights and so I refused the installation. The seller is now trying to tell me that because I rejected the job, I am now in effect in breach of contract and they have ignored me since I requested a full refund of the goods which are untouched in my possession. I received the goods 12 days ago and the fitter called at my house 7 days ago. Interestingly the fitting Company were completely in agreement with me that they are not fit for purpose to be fitted in the position I asked for in my telephone query 2 days before ordering the goods. If anyone can give any advice before I threaten them with legal action through the small claims court I'd appreciate it. Many thanks ..... flyinggiz.
Before you make any legal threats, I think you need to get the legal facts correct.
The lights are not faulty in any way.
You were aware 10 holes needed to be drilled in the vehicle to fit the lights.
Fortunately the seller was not the fitter, and so your car was not damaged which it sounds like it would have been if left to the seller or you fitted them yourself.
What do you seriously want the seller to do? Make your car structurally unsafe??? :eek:
You bought the goods. The seller has offered (via their fitting agent) to fit them at the only place on the car it would be safe & legal to fit them. You refused. You still have the lights.
I suggest if you don't want them (and you can't negotiate a sellement with the seller), then stick 'em on ebay and make what you can back on the deal.
You won't get anywhere in court with this on the basis the lights are not fit for purpose. They are just not suitable for what you purchased them for.0 -
I tried to condense my original post but there is another element to this. I ordered a set of reversing sensors and daylight running lights from them at the same time. On their website these are two different items and the price INCLUDES fitting. ( £149.99 & £159.99 respectively ). I asked them if I could have a discount as they would both be fitted on the same day but they informed me that this was not possible as they paid the fitters by the job and not by the visit. The fitter installed the rear sensors to my satisfaction but when he looked at the Daylight Running Lights he immediately saw the problem. So in effect, I've paid for 2 separate items that EACH in their price include fitting. In other words, had I ordered them separately & had them fitted on separate days, the price would have been exactly the same. Therefore I believe I'm in my rights to demand a full refund for the DLR's as they are still in the box ( I've sent them a picture ) and no attempt was made by the fitter to install them. I signed for the satisfactory job and the fitter left. Advice please as they are now ignoring me.0
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flyinggizmo wrote: »I tried to condense my original post but there is another element to this. I ordered a set of reversing sensors and daylight running lights from them at the same time. On their website these are two different items and the price INCLUDES fitting. ( £149.99 & £159.99 respectively ). I asked them if I could have a discount as they would both be fitted on the same day but they informed me that this was not possible as they paid the fitters by the job and not by the visit. The fitter installed the rear sensors to my satisfaction but when he looked at the Daylight Running Lights he immediately saw the problem. So in effect, I've paid for 2 separate items that EACH in their price include fitting. In other words, had I ordered them separately & had them fitted on separate days, the price would have been exactly the same. Therefore I believe I'm in my rights to demand a full refund for the DLR's as they are still in the box ( I've sent them a picture ) and no attempt was made by the fitter to install them. I signed for the satisfactory job and the fitter left. Advice please as they are now ignoring me.
As I asked, what exactly do you expect the seller to do?
Get the lights fitted thereby making the car structurally unsafe??? :huh: :eek:
I'm not surprised the fitter would not fit them where you wanted.
You paid for fitment of two different products.
The fitter offered to fit both products.
You allowed the fitter to fit one of the products and refused to allow him to fit the other (to a safe location, only to an unsafe an probably illegal position if you want to use the car on the road).
I've told you how to proceed ...0 -
You won't get anywhere in court with this on the basis the lights are not fit for purpose. They are just not suitable for what you purchased them for.
It appears that they are not fit for a purpose which was made known to the seller before purchase.
As the seller asserted that the goods were suitable for the buyer's proposed use, the buyer has the right to reject the goods as not conforming to contract.0 -
I rang them 2 days before making the order to confirm that they could be fitted in the position I wanted them. ( there's pictures of other Ford cars on their website ( Fiesta etc.) of installations they had done where the lights were exactly in the place I requested. My argument is, that as suppliers of goods, that they should have sufficient knowledge of the products they sell and the limitations of fitting these particular lights to my Focus should have been brought to my attention, in which case I wouldn't have ordered them. When the fitter's company rang them to explain, they emailed a picture of a Focus with the lights in a completely different place and said that they would have to be fitted there. I rejected this option & the fitter agreed with me as it didn't look aesthetically pleasing. I'm the customer, they should know their products & any limitations of the fitting of those products especially when they are using a third party company for fitting and those limitations should be either on their website or conveyed to the customer in some other way. The truth is, it's a Ford Focus, arguably one of the commonest makes of car on UK roads. They told the fitting Company that they record all their phone calls. I have given them the date and time of my original query call, but despite me asking 6 times for them to listen to it so there is no ambiguity in what I said, they have avoided confirming anything.0
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It appears that they are not fit for a purpose which was made known to the seller before purchase.
As the seller asserted that the goods were suitable for the buyer's proposed use, the buyer has the right to reject the goods as not conforming to contract.
I'm sure the lights are fit for purpose. i.e. as DLR lights suitable for a Ford Focus.
But they are not suitable for fitment in the place the OP wants them fitted. They were offered to be fitted in a safe and legal position, but the OP refused.
So they are not fit for what the OP bought them for. But they are fit for purpose.
There's propbably no ebidence of the phone call, and even if there were, you cannot say what was promised. It's very difficult to explain such a fitment with accuracy over the phone. Pictures, measurements, etc would normally be needed.0 -
flyinggizmo wrote: »I rang them 2 days before making the order to confirm that they could be fitted in the position I wanted them. ( there's pictures of other Ford cars on their website ( Fiesta etc.) of installations they had done where the lights were exactly in the place I requested. ....
Is there a picture of a Ford Focus with the lights fitted in that position.
A Ford Focus is a different car (with different construction) to a Ford Fiesta.
As I said, it's lucky the supplier employed a fitter he knew what he was doing, else you could be on the road in a death trap!0 -
It would seem to come down to the content of the discussion you had with the seller before you purchases.
Did you make them aware of exactly which car you had (model, year etc?) Cars change over time.
Did you tell them you wanted the lights fitted in this very specific location?
Did they confirm with you this was possible?
If you gave them all the information, and they got it wrong, they should really offer a refund. If you didn't, it's not their fault.
Proving the content of any conversation is another issue. Emails are a lot easier than phone calls.
Negotiation is better than legal threats but if you want the specific point of law it's this:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/5414 (3) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business and the buyer, expressly or by implication, makes known to the seller any particular purpose for which the goods are being bought, there is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are reasonably fit for that purpose, whether or not that is a purpose for which such goods are commonly supplied, except where the circumstances show that the buyer does not rely, or that it is unreasonable for him to rely, on the seller’s skill or judgment.This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
I told them exactly which car I had and even gave them the VIN number and registration so there's no excuse on their part. The installation confirmation that they sent me before the fitting date includes both the VIN & reg details so there can be no debate that they weren't made aware of anything. I have since recorded a phone call with the guy I originally contacted with the query ( I told him it was being recorded ) where it is obvious in the conversation that prior to being informed by the fitting company, he didn't understand why the lights couldn't be fitted in the position I requested. Surely these people should have a reasonable technical knowledge of the products they sell. If they'd fitted them where I wanted & I found out later that they'd destroyed the structural integrity of the car in the event of an accident ( nullifying my insurance ), who would be responsible then?!! I used this Company because I don't have the technical knowledge or expertise to do the job myself. I'm relying on them to have that knowledge & expertise ( that's what I'm paying them for ). I think I'm perfectly justified in asking for a full refund for the reasons I've outlined.0
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