Wooden Sash Double Glazing Quote

justincaselow

Hi

We currently have single glazed wooden sash frames in our recently purchased flat which are in disrepair and would like to replace them with double glazing. We live in a "Conservation Area" (but not a listed building) within Glasgow so are not permitted to have the more widely available uPVC windows for any front facing windows that would be a lot cheaper. They are large windows (one of them is roughly 100cm x 250cm) and we would ideally like to get replacements for the entire flat (4 bedrooms and a living room) totalling 10 front facing windows.

We have a recommendation for a local glazer who has been around for about 40 years and did a family member's windows to a high standard many years ago. For wooden sash double glazing replacements including labour he has given us a quote of £1,480 per window and indicated that the price is the same even if we were to get more windows. He does not appear to use any tactics as we've heard many of the larger double glazing companies use and has mentioned that the supplier does offer high quality spec windows (Blairs based in Greenock). He has mentioned that he wouldn't be able to offer any reductions on the previously mentioned quote.

Wanted to know if anybody has had wooden double glazing sash windows installed and the prices quoted for them? Also given the above information whether the quote given appears to be reasonable? Realise the cost is significantly more than uPVC as expected but had difficulty finding a ballpark figure for DG wooden sash online so far.

Any info would be much appreciated, thanks.

Sanoffo

Sounds about right. We just had 4x double glazed sashes put in, unpainted but primed Sapele hardwood, smaller size windows at about 90x200. We paid £3k for the lot cash.

We are in London. Hope this helps.

leveller2911

Sanoffo wrote: »

Sounds about right. We just had 4x double glazed sashes put in, unpainted but primed Sapele hardwood, smaller size windows at about 90x200. We paid £3k for the lot cash.

We are in London. Hope this helps.

Just to clarify, did you replace the complete boxframes and sashes or just 4 new sashes in the existing boxframes (2 sashes per window)?.

Sanoffo

Yes sorry. Just the windows, not the boxes so 4 windows on the upstairs of the house, 8 sashes alltogether.

Babbawah

You need to do some more research into this . . . .

From what I'm told, it is far cheaper & far more sympathetic to fit double glazed glass panels to existing sash windows . . . even when they need extensive restoration !

A 'conservation area' status is absolutely & totally different from a 'listed building' status. Are you 100% sure that you cannot have uPVC sash windows fitted? (because that's what I did).

£1500 per window is utter nonsense !

justincaselow

Thanks for all the responses so far - good to get a comparison Sanoffo. Our quote is for the entire window including boxframe and painting for fully treated Scandanavian softwood.

Babbawah, we are aware there is a difference between conservation areas and listed buildings and we have contacted the council on a few occasions as to the regulations that apply to us (below is a direct quote from the council document).

We are 100% sure that uPVC sash windows are not permitted in our area (not to say you couldn't go ahead and fit them anyway). However this would be a large risk from what we've been told (from several sources) - if a property were to goes ahead with uPVC sash windows in a conservation area, they can be told to remove them and replace with a similar style in keeping with the area. In reality I don't know whether the council would follow this up in a timely manner / at all, but certainly wouldn't want to be looking over my shoulder wondering when they might. The top floor of our block does have uPVC and a neighbour has mentioned that the council are currently investigating them. We even asked the council whether wood finished uPVC is acceptable to which they said it wasn't.

£1500 per window is very expensive, there is no denying that but wooden double glazed sash is an expensive product - could you clarify whether the 'nonsense' was that it was just very pricey or whether it was too pricey for the product quoted?

Un-listed Buildings within Conservation Areas

Any proposed windows, visible from a public area, such as a road, a park,

allotments or playing fields, must match the historic design exactly in terms of

materials, proportions, profiles and dimensions of frames and astragals and

method of opening. This would include details such as glazing bars and horns.

The replacement windows should re-use historic glass including stained, leaded

or etched glass, where this contributes to a building’s character. Historic

ironmongery should be salvaged, refurbished and re-used wherever possible.

Proposed windows on rear or side elevations, not visible from a public area,

must match the historic proportions, but may have a different material and/or

method of opening. The new windows should reflect the profiles and

dimensions of the historic windows and avoid heavy frames.

uPVC is not considered a suitable window frame material for the public

elevations as defined above of un-listed properties in conservation areas

Replacement should not be considered where the historic windows contribute

positively to the character and appearance of the building or where it would

result in the loss of historic glass.

Babbawah

justincaselow wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses so far - good to get a comparison Sanoffo. Our quote is for the entire window including boxframe and painting for fully treated Scandanavian softwood.

Babbawah, we are aware there is a difference between conservation areas and listed buildings and we have contacted the council on a few occasions as to the regulations that apply to us (below is a direct quote from the council document).

<snipped>

Is that Glasgow City Council?

Although I'm not familiar with their particular rules & regulations I am familiar with how councils can be very sneaky in getting what they want.

Their guidance does not always reflect .your legal obligations.

In my conservation area there are several companies actively promoting replacement uPVC sash windows as being legally acceptable yet against the 'guidlines' which are merely the wishes of the council..

Since fitting mine at a cost of less than £400 per window (builder rather than DG specialist) I discovered a tradesman who will restore sash windows back to 100% condition & fit double glazed panels for a lot less (depending on the initial condition of the window).

I could kick myself, my windows were 100+yrs old and in remarkably good condition. A neighbour who used this tradesman mocks me !

justincaselow

Indeed, Glasgow City Council - are you also based here? Interesting point you made and will certainly try to pursue whether the guidelines and what is legal tie up in this case, thanks for your response.

Sanoffo

Babbawah wrote: »

You need to do some more research into this . . . .

From what I'm told, it is far cheaper & far more sympathetic to fit double glazed glass panels to existing sash windows . . . even when they need extensive restoration !

A 'conservation area' status is absolutely & totally different from a 'listed building' status. Are you 100% sure that you cannot have uPVC sash windows fitted? (because that's what I did).

£1500 per window is utter nonsense !

Having double glazed units in single frame sashes doesn't always work due to the frames being too thin.

We had various quotes and all were between £800-£1400 per window (excluding boxes). London prices may be higher than elsewhere however.

justincaselow

Sanoffo, don't suppose you know how much quotes were including box frames?

leveller2911

Babbawah wrote: »

You need to do some more research into this . . . .

From what I'm told, it is far cheaper & far more sympathetic to fit double glazed glass panels to existing sash windows . . . even when they need extensive restoration !

Not 100% true I'm afraid. One problem that often arises is because your increasing the weight of the sashes due to the extra pane of glass there isn't enough room in the boxes for the larger weights even when using lead weights. Another problem is that many old boxframes are no longer square, they also twist out of plumb.Making and fitting new square sashes into an existing boxframe that has a twist in will never run nice on the pulley stiles. Replacement windows can be made to exactly match the details on the mouldings etc of the existing ones.

Then theres the added problem of the boxframe will rot before the new sashes ,especially if the replacements are made from Sapele,Oak,Iroko or Idigbo rather than Scandanavian Redwood which unless it is pressure treated (never brush on preservative) will rot prematurely.

It is cheaper in the short term to replace just the sashes but long term is false economy.Its far easier/better to fit draught excluders at the time of making a new boxframe. Over the years I have seen many times people just replace the sashes but usually 3-5 years down the line the boxes need replacing. There are companies out there who will splice repair boxframes with new timbers and 2 pack fillers and within a couple of years or so the windows begin to rot again. The reason being the replacement sections of timber have a different moisture content and as such expand/contract at a different rate to the existing timbers, the paint on the joints crack ,water ingress then rottisng begins.

A 'conservation area' status is absolutely & totally different from a 'listed building' status. Are you 100% sure that you cannot have uPVC sash windows fitted? (because that's what I did).

Correct, however in a Conservation area they generally don't allow double glazing on the front elevation overlooking a road or park.I have never come across a conservation area which allows Upvc, having said that the upvc industry have upped their game and can make windows that look ok.

Around 80% of my work is on Listed Properties and Churches so I deal with Conservation officers and Local Authorities regularly.

£1500 per window is utter nonsense !

Is It?. Based on what? I make Joinery for a living and I'm currently making Venetian box sash windows. Say for instance a complete sash window around 2100mm high x 1300mm wide ,8 over 8 (appears to have 16 panes in total) double glazed,Sapele hardwood,draught stripped ,decent quality fittings and primed,supply only would be somewhere in the region of £1800 +vat. If I make 3 or more its cheaper, making volume saves time and this is then passed on to the customer.

I'm fully booked up until next January so my customers don't think I'm too expensive..


I think on the face of it the OP is getting an excellant deal although I have seen some cheap boxframes where the workmanship was dire so I'm wary of very cheap sash windows. The only thing I would say is I've been making Joinery for over 25 years and I haven't used Scandanavian redwood for nearly 10 years because its no longer durable.Its grown fast,kiln dried and now poor quality. If you don't believe me the look on the TRADA (Timber Research and Develpoment Agency) website who test timbers for durablity,strength etc and Redwood pines and now classed as "slightly durable" one classification up from "non durable"..